Re: Packard Mortality Statistic
Posted by Leeedy On 2021/12/20 15:33:38
Please. The disc brake thing has gotten completely out of hand with old cars. Totally. And the younger the person is, the more they want to trash everything original out of the car and customize it, mongrelize it to the hilt... THEN call the customized mongrel creation "restored." How did things ever get so far?
Trucks with 80,000 pounds of load are NOT using disc brakes. They use air-energized DRUM BRAKES.
"Disc brakes" and "panacea" do not mean the same thing. And modifying a Packard into something it never was, something the factory never made is not a "restoration" or "upgrade." These are all terms and notions created in recent years by auction houses, magazines with writers born after the Apollo moon landing, fear mongers, theorists and by people selling "kits" to modify your Packard.
If you've decided that disc brakes are gonna save you from the dangerous world out there on the streets and highways, then more power to you. This is a choice... that's all. Make it with the knowledge that you are creating your own customized modified mongrel and admit it. But let's not sink into delusions. No Packard left the factory with dual-circuit boosters and disc brakes. Never. Ever.
The way people talk today about disc brakes OUGHT to make one wonder how American cars ever stopped or survived before disc brakes (and it originally was only front discs) came on the market in the 1970s? How did people driving cars before discs ever even dare face a traffic light or drive in traffic on daily commutes? Well? I DID.
I hung out on Woodward Avenue and street raced back in its heyday. This was back when drum brakes with sintered metallic linings were the ultimate brakes a human being on the real streets in the USA could have. I am a person who raced a Ford XL convertible with a Police Interceptor 390 CID engine. WITH drum brakes. I bought a NEW Pontiac GTO "360 H.O." convertible that was a celebrity car on Woodward. I took it to Royal Pontiac and had it "Bobcatted" (some people may know what this means). It was blazing fast. WITH drum brakes (see the attached photo). I had Packards in Southern California and drove them on the winding, mountainous, famed Mulholland Drive. I drove through Laurel Canyon and up and down Mt. Olympus in Hollywood IN Packards WITH drum brakes.
I am sorry, but during a lifetime of SANE driving with properly-shoed and adjusted drum brakes with old-fashioned brake fluid, I never once had brakes fade in normal driving. I could usually lock up the wheels on ANY of my many cars that were equipped with DRUM brakes. Sorry. What more could anyone want? Are we planning for driving Packards in the F-1 Grand Prix or Indy 500?
I'm sure there will be someone to argue this point into the ground, but changing a Packard to disc brakes does not make it "restored" or "safe"... it makes it "customized" and a "thingie." Something Packard never made. And if dual-circuit disc brakes are gonna save your life or make the car driveable for folks who think tail-gating and doing "donuts" is somehow the thing to do, well what can we say about that?
Like George Carlin once said, "First you learn how to drive safe, THEN you buy your safe car!"
While one is creating a so-called "safe" car...
• What are you going to do about crumple zones in the body?
• What about energy-absorbing front and rear bumpers?
• How about energy-absorbing steering columns? (USA cars had these since 1967)
• What about side impact protection strengthened doors?
• Those disc brakes can still get you into plenty of trouble without computerized anti-skid, anti-lock ABS. So what about that?
• What about airbags (steering wheel, side impact, seat, etc.)? Gotta have these for a SAFE car!
• Where are the head restraints in your Packard? Gotta have them too!
• What about pelletizing tempered safety glass instead of all that "dangerous" laminated glass in your Packard. Gotta have the new stuff since you're "up-grading"!
• How about shoulder belts? Lap belts are to shoulder belt as people these days seem to THINK drum brakes are to discs. Of course, shoulder belts would require a whole new set of mechanisms and anchor points. And knee bolsters (people who have worked OEM level automotive know what these are). OHhhh... and since we're talking shoulder belts, we'll need to include the computerized retractors (most people don't even know these exist) and G-sensors to work them.
Where does restoration stop and customizing begin? And why is it that no one wants to admit they are modifying/customizing and will instead claim they are "restoring/upgrading"? Why all this phobia, fear mongering, overkill and mumbo-jumbo talk about drum brakes?
Technology in mechanical and electrical systems are always surpassed. This is how our world works. If you wait long enough, something better almost always comes along. I once ran IBM 360 computers that took up whole rooms yet did not have the computing power of a typical smart phone of today. BUT... we are dealing with old cars here.
If you've got a Packard, it was a very finely-engineered, high quality automobile when new. Repair your brakes. Use the right parts. Adjust them properly. Drive them sanely. Return the brakes to the way they were when new. They stopped the cars quite adequately then, they can stop them now.
Attach file:
LEE1968GTO001.jpg (30.87 KB)
Trucks with 80,000 pounds of load are NOT using disc brakes. They use air-energized DRUM BRAKES.
"Disc brakes" and "panacea" do not mean the same thing. And modifying a Packard into something it never was, something the factory never made is not a "restoration" or "upgrade." These are all terms and notions created in recent years by auction houses, magazines with writers born after the Apollo moon landing, fear mongers, theorists and by people selling "kits" to modify your Packard.
If you've decided that disc brakes are gonna save you from the dangerous world out there on the streets and highways, then more power to you. This is a choice... that's all. Make it with the knowledge that you are creating your own customized modified mongrel and admit it. But let's not sink into delusions. No Packard left the factory with dual-circuit boosters and disc brakes. Never. Ever.
The way people talk today about disc brakes OUGHT to make one wonder how American cars ever stopped or survived before disc brakes (and it originally was only front discs) came on the market in the 1970s? How did people driving cars before discs ever even dare face a traffic light or drive in traffic on daily commutes? Well? I DID.
I hung out on Woodward Avenue and street raced back in its heyday. This was back when drum brakes with sintered metallic linings were the ultimate brakes a human being on the real streets in the USA could have. I am a person who raced a Ford XL convertible with a Police Interceptor 390 CID engine. WITH drum brakes. I bought a NEW Pontiac GTO "360 H.O." convertible that was a celebrity car on Woodward. I took it to Royal Pontiac and had it "Bobcatted" (some people may know what this means). It was blazing fast. WITH drum brakes (see the attached photo). I had Packards in Southern California and drove them on the winding, mountainous, famed Mulholland Drive. I drove through Laurel Canyon and up and down Mt. Olympus in Hollywood IN Packards WITH drum brakes.
I am sorry, but during a lifetime of SANE driving with properly-shoed and adjusted drum brakes with old-fashioned brake fluid, I never once had brakes fade in normal driving. I could usually lock up the wheels on ANY of my many cars that were equipped with DRUM brakes. Sorry. What more could anyone want? Are we planning for driving Packards in the F-1 Grand Prix or Indy 500?
I'm sure there will be someone to argue this point into the ground, but changing a Packard to disc brakes does not make it "restored" or "safe"... it makes it "customized" and a "thingie." Something Packard never made. And if dual-circuit disc brakes are gonna save your life or make the car driveable for folks who think tail-gating and doing "donuts" is somehow the thing to do, well what can we say about that?
Like George Carlin once said, "First you learn how to drive safe, THEN you buy your safe car!"
While one is creating a so-called "safe" car...
• What are you going to do about crumple zones in the body?
• What about energy-absorbing front and rear bumpers?
• How about energy-absorbing steering columns? (USA cars had these since 1967)
• What about side impact protection strengthened doors?
• Those disc brakes can still get you into plenty of trouble without computerized anti-skid, anti-lock ABS. So what about that?
• What about airbags (steering wheel, side impact, seat, etc.)? Gotta have these for a SAFE car!
• Where are the head restraints in your Packard? Gotta have them too!
• What about pelletizing tempered safety glass instead of all that "dangerous" laminated glass in your Packard. Gotta have the new stuff since you're "up-grading"!
• How about shoulder belts? Lap belts are to shoulder belt as people these days seem to THINK drum brakes are to discs. Of course, shoulder belts would require a whole new set of mechanisms and anchor points. And knee bolsters (people who have worked OEM level automotive know what these are). OHhhh... and since we're talking shoulder belts, we'll need to include the computerized retractors (most people don't even know these exist) and G-sensors to work them.
Where does restoration stop and customizing begin? And why is it that no one wants to admit they are modifying/customizing and will instead claim they are "restoring/upgrading"? Why all this phobia, fear mongering, overkill and mumbo-jumbo talk about drum brakes?
Technology in mechanical and electrical systems are always surpassed. This is how our world works. If you wait long enough, something better almost always comes along. I once ran IBM 360 computers that took up whole rooms yet did not have the computing power of a typical smart phone of today. BUT... we are dealing with old cars here.
If you've got a Packard, it was a very finely-engineered, high quality automobile when new. Repair your brakes. Use the right parts. Adjust them properly. Drive them sanely. Return the brakes to the way they were when new. They stopped the cars quite adequately then, they can stop them now.
Attach file:
LEE1968GTO001.jpg (30.87 KB)This Post was from: https://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?post_id=239736