Re: Convertible Top on a '55 Caribbean
Posted by Leeedy On 2020/6/16 12:05:33
Quote:
Hello,
This is gonna be long and probably ought to be an article instead of a posting. But since you asked and since I'm so old and time is of the essence...
Many years ago in the 1970s I had samples of original Packard top fabrics. I still have a very large selection of convertible top fabrics to this day. I made connections with major convertible top makers (companies that actually made the tops, not the fabrics). Most of these companies are gone today or absorbed into "investment" conglomerates. As for the people? Almost all of the real old-timers are gone or somewhere off in retirement. And many of the fabric makers are also gone.
I had part interest in a trim shop which is now long gone. I also got hold of original 1955 and 1956 top fabrics via a source in Southern California and in New York. I got a few tops made back then, but was only able to do pale blue inside and pink inside since these were the only two colors I was ever able to find. And that was that. Made several more in correct patterns and fabrics, but only with light inner faces.
I also had the original (ORIGINAL) patterns for 1955 and 1956 tops. These were huge and I ended up giving them to a company in SoCal that was a convertible top maker and stitched tops together for me. The very last of the two color tops I had were in boxes that disappeared when my 1956 Caribbean convertible and parts in my barn were stolen. I never had any more. This was a long time ago.
ALL 1955 and 1956 Caribbean convertible tops had the color of the center body stripe on the inside of the fabric. For instance, if your Caribbean was white/pink/charcoal (not the factory names for these colors) on the outside, then your top would be pink on the inside. If white/light green/dark metallic green, then your top would be light green on the inside. And so on. Top bows were ALWAYS white with chrome pivots.
The inner face color was NOT a "headliner" but was calendered into the actual top fabric in the manufacturing process of said fabric. In other words, the top fabric for each Caribbean was made that way. DON'T tell me that Packard wasn't on top of the luxury game in 1955 and 1956!!! And had they made the 1957s, tops they had planned would have been mind-blowing.
Now. 1955 Caribbean tops were made of Orlon, a woven fabric that today restorers have mistaken for canvas-which it most definitely was NOT. There have been some pretty awful tops hashed together in recent years. Orlon had a kind of smoothness and sheen to it. It was always an off-white color on the outside and the color of the center paint stripe on the inside. The only dead original 1955 Caribbean top that I know of existing today is on the Howard Hughes/Jean Peters Caribbean which is now in the National Packard Museum in Warren, Ohio. Unfortunately, there are people TODAY crowing and begging the museum to show the car with the top DOWN-which is just plain absurd since...
A.) a permanently lowered top definitely WILL shrink and memorize folds and become useless...
B.) Nobody will be able to see what an ORIGINAL 1955 Caribbean top actually looked like!
ANYBOY can display a Caribbean with the top down, but where will you find an ORIGINAL unmolested top on display? PLEASE, National Packard Museum... take these facts into consideration!
1956 Caribbean tops were made of a rubberized vinyl material known as Hypalon. This fabric had a grain to it. So-called modern "colonial grain" is kinda-sorta close. Kinda-sorta. But the grain used on a fabric called "Everflex" is more a dead ringer. AND IF Everflex is still being made (I don't know that it is for sure since I'm long out of the automotive biz professionally) it is also perfect due to having a very light beige color in the inner face of the material. Everflex was still being used on Rolls-Royce Corniche convertibles and elsewhere for many years. The inner face of Everflex was dye-able but it was a tough job to do it.
Making either of these tops today and doing it right is a VERY expensive, time-consuming and laborious task. The old guy who dyed inner faces of tops for me back in the 1970s-early 80s is now long dead. And his process died with him. As we speak I have been trying to get two authentic 1955 tops made-at great expense. And so far, no serious success in dyeing the inner face.
I have a fabric that is very much like Orlon and with a light beige inner face. A good start, but the inside resists dye. And the outside is very, very easily stained. Trimmers don't even like working with it. In short, a nightmare. So I'm trying to create a good dye process that will work. Not at all easy... and the fabric costs a fortune! And that's per square foot!
Barring the availability and expense of the unusual fabric I mention here. The only other alternative for 1955 is to get white vinyl convertible fabric in diamond pinpoint pattern outside and light beige inside ("diamond pinpoint" grain is a term that a good pro trimmer should easily understand). Such fabric is uncommon (most is black inner face) but can indeed be found. IF your trim shop takes time and looks. The inside has to be light because dyeing black is hopeless.
If you're going to attempt dyeing the inner face of the fabric, you'll need to start on the fabric itself. Not on an already-made top. It's too late by then. And with all of the many colors involved, this is where the train goes off the tracks-unless you've got very deep pockets.
Oh. And for 1956, the top boot itself actually was made of the same fabric as the top and yes, had color on the underside.
In short, nobody I know of is making 1955 OR 1956 Caribbean convertible tops in the correct fabric and with color on the inside as original. I've been working on two tops for over a year, first finding the fabric, obtaining, then the dye process nightmare. If I discover a proper way to do it for 1955, I'll let you know.
The important thing to remember, it is not just a matter of cutting and sewing a top up. The issue is getting the fabric.... then getting the coloring done THEN getting the top made. This is how it works.
Oh... and one final aside. In the very early 1970s I got Robbins Auto Top Company in Santa Monica, California (who were personal friends and the same guys who helped me get a tempered glass window FIRST into the Mazda Miata) to make a 1956 Caribbean top WITH color. It was very expensive, but we got the top made and it looked beautiful. Years later when a friend sold the car, the guy who bought it immediately ripped the top off, painted the car black, painted the bows black and shoved a BLACK CANVAS top on there. Ohhh was he ever proud! And ohhh was I ever sick!
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55Packardconv wrote:
Not to hijack this thread or anything, but I'd like to ask if anyone has a line on an authentic reproduction of the 1955 Caribbean top material. There are a few of us 1955 owners that are getting ready to replace our tops, and the last place that I saw offering reproduction tops is, I believe, no longer in business. I am hoping that Leeedy will chime in here.
Hello,
This is gonna be long and probably ought to be an article instead of a posting. But since you asked and since I'm so old and time is of the essence...
Many years ago in the 1970s I had samples of original Packard top fabrics. I still have a very large selection of convertible top fabrics to this day. I made connections with major convertible top makers (companies that actually made the tops, not the fabrics). Most of these companies are gone today or absorbed into "investment" conglomerates. As for the people? Almost all of the real old-timers are gone or somewhere off in retirement. And many of the fabric makers are also gone.
I had part interest in a trim shop which is now long gone. I also got hold of original 1955 and 1956 top fabrics via a source in Southern California and in New York. I got a few tops made back then, but was only able to do pale blue inside and pink inside since these were the only two colors I was ever able to find. And that was that. Made several more in correct patterns and fabrics, but only with light inner faces.
I also had the original (ORIGINAL) patterns for 1955 and 1956 tops. These were huge and I ended up giving them to a company in SoCal that was a convertible top maker and stitched tops together for me. The very last of the two color tops I had were in boxes that disappeared when my 1956 Caribbean convertible and parts in my barn were stolen. I never had any more. This was a long time ago.
ALL 1955 and 1956 Caribbean convertible tops had the color of the center body stripe on the inside of the fabric. For instance, if your Caribbean was white/pink/charcoal (not the factory names for these colors) on the outside, then your top would be pink on the inside. If white/light green/dark metallic green, then your top would be light green on the inside. And so on. Top bows were ALWAYS white with chrome pivots.
The inner face color was NOT a "headliner" but was calendered into the actual top fabric in the manufacturing process of said fabric. In other words, the top fabric for each Caribbean was made that way. DON'T tell me that Packard wasn't on top of the luxury game in 1955 and 1956!!! And had they made the 1957s, tops they had planned would have been mind-blowing.
Now. 1955 Caribbean tops were made of Orlon, a woven fabric that today restorers have mistaken for canvas-which it most definitely was NOT. There have been some pretty awful tops hashed together in recent years. Orlon had a kind of smoothness and sheen to it. It was always an off-white color on the outside and the color of the center paint stripe on the inside. The only dead original 1955 Caribbean top that I know of existing today is on the Howard Hughes/Jean Peters Caribbean which is now in the National Packard Museum in Warren, Ohio. Unfortunately, there are people TODAY crowing and begging the museum to show the car with the top DOWN-which is just plain absurd since...
A.) a permanently lowered top definitely WILL shrink and memorize folds and become useless...
B.) Nobody will be able to see what an ORIGINAL 1955 Caribbean top actually looked like!
ANYBOY can display a Caribbean with the top down, but where will you find an ORIGINAL unmolested top on display? PLEASE, National Packard Museum... take these facts into consideration!
1956 Caribbean tops were made of a rubberized vinyl material known as Hypalon. This fabric had a grain to it. So-called modern "colonial grain" is kinda-sorta close. Kinda-sorta. But the grain used on a fabric called "Everflex" is more a dead ringer. AND IF Everflex is still being made (I don't know that it is for sure since I'm long out of the automotive biz professionally) it is also perfect due to having a very light beige color in the inner face of the material. Everflex was still being used on Rolls-Royce Corniche convertibles and elsewhere for many years. The inner face of Everflex was dye-able but it was a tough job to do it.
Making either of these tops today and doing it right is a VERY expensive, time-consuming and laborious task. The old guy who dyed inner faces of tops for me back in the 1970s-early 80s is now long dead. And his process died with him. As we speak I have been trying to get two authentic 1955 tops made-at great expense. And so far, no serious success in dyeing the inner face.
I have a fabric that is very much like Orlon and with a light beige inner face. A good start, but the inside resists dye. And the outside is very, very easily stained. Trimmers don't even like working with it. In short, a nightmare. So I'm trying to create a good dye process that will work. Not at all easy... and the fabric costs a fortune! And that's per square foot!
Barring the availability and expense of the unusual fabric I mention here. The only other alternative for 1955 is to get white vinyl convertible fabric in diamond pinpoint pattern outside and light beige inside ("diamond pinpoint" grain is a term that a good pro trimmer should easily understand). Such fabric is uncommon (most is black inner face) but can indeed be found. IF your trim shop takes time and looks. The inside has to be light because dyeing black is hopeless.
If you're going to attempt dyeing the inner face of the fabric, you'll need to start on the fabric itself. Not on an already-made top. It's too late by then. And with all of the many colors involved, this is where the train goes off the tracks-unless you've got very deep pockets.
Oh. And for 1956, the top boot itself actually was made of the same fabric as the top and yes, had color on the underside.
In short, nobody I know of is making 1955 OR 1956 Caribbean convertible tops in the correct fabric and with color on the inside as original. I've been working on two tops for over a year, first finding the fabric, obtaining, then the dye process nightmare. If I discover a proper way to do it for 1955, I'll let you know.
The important thing to remember, it is not just a matter of cutting and sewing a top up. The issue is getting the fabric.... then getting the coloring done THEN getting the top made. This is how it works.
Oh... and one final aside. In the very early 1970s I got Robbins Auto Top Company in Santa Monica, California (who were personal friends and the same guys who helped me get a tempered glass window FIRST into the Mazda Miata) to make a 1956 Caribbean top WITH color. It was very expensive, but we got the top made and it looked beautiful. Years later when a friend sold the car, the guy who bought it immediately ripped the top off, painted the car black, painted the bows black and shoved a BLACK CANVAS top on there. Ohhh was he ever proud! And ohhh was I ever sick!
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