Re: Packard V8 bore spacing

Posted by Diskovod On 2009/10/26 12:57:39
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Alex, From what I understand it's a common practice for manufacturers to buy their competitors products for many reasons. And no doubt the similarities between Packards and various Russian built cars is more than co-incidence. Doubt that Packard or anybody else would have won a patent rights/copyright or any sort of court case in the USSR during the cold-war years. And yes, it is a great Site with a good bunch of people on board.

Yeah, that's okay, but I'm just up to find out if something is common.

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If I am interpreting the drawing correctly the number 6 indicates the intake ports. In that case this head has a rather unusual layout with the valves arranged IE IE IE IE. The more usual arrangement is EI IE EI IE with the intakes paired up and the middle exhaust ports also paired up. In the fifties all GM V8s had this layout as did Ford, Mercury, Lincoln, Studebaker and AMC. The only company with the IE IE IE IE arrangement was Chrysler in their hemi head and polysphere head engines.And they never used the conventional wedge head. Later Ford used the same layout in their small block V8 (289 etc) but that one did not come out until 1962. So it appears the Russians did not copy any Detroit V8 as this valve arrangement, combined with the wedge type combustion chamber with valves all in a row, did not appear on any Detroit V8 before 1962.

Wow. You sound quite accurate. Yes, it's IEIEIEIE.
Original Image
But ZIL-130 has EIIEEIIE layout.
Original Image

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Not exactly true. The Pontiac Ram Air V had this arrangement too, and probably the Ford Tunnelport from which the Pontiac RAV was almost a direct copy. There are issues with valve arrangement vs head bolt arrangement. On Pontiacs, there were 4 common bolt holes per cylinder, but on Packard there were 5. Therefore the EIIEEIIE arrangement forced Packard (and others like Pontiac) to siameze the center exhaust ports. Pontiac's 4 bolt per cylinder allowed them to go to the EIEIIEIE arrangement (Ram Air V) without difficulty, but that would not have worked easily for Packard. None of this applies to the Russian version of course, it is just interesting from an engineering point of view, IMO. Craig

So no Cadillacs, Buicks, Pontiacs, Ford or any other company used wet liners back then?
I doubt they liked Chrysler's Hemi design much as it is a bit more complicated, but Pontiac maybe.
I saw a pic of a 1953 Pontiac on an exhibition here and there was written that it had 4.25 litre engine. Straight-8 maybe?
Here it is.
Original Image

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The angled distributor driving an external oil pump is more akin to the big block Mopar B-series engines than the vertical drive and internal oil pump of the Packard V8. thnx, jack vines
Hmm, that's interesting! Thank you!

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Diskovod--was the Chaika engine developed for that car, or was it developed for another use (agricultural, military or marine) and adapted for the Chaika? I know in the past there was a perception in the US, probably fueld by cold war rhetoric, that the USSR didn't really develop autos or their powerplants from the ground up as a whole, but rather they tended to use powerplants that the state was already producing for other uses. I would be interested on your take on this.

As you might have noticed I was likely to write "Chaika/Gaz truck V8" instead of Chaika V8 alone.

There are 2 series of these engines:

1. Chaika series - 5.53 litre engine.
Models: ZMZ-13, ZMZ-14, ZMZ-41, ZMZ-505, ZMZ-504.10 (experimental version with fuel injection - published in a book of 1982 - pulled around 260 hp on the dyno)
Used on GAZ-13 "Chaika", GAZ-14 (Chaika Gen-II), GAZ-23 ( Volga 21 with ZMZ-13 V8 - for KGB), GAZ-2424 (Volga 24 with ZMZ-13 V8 - again for KGB), GAZ-2434 (Volga 2410 (modified) with ZMZ-14 V8 - KGB), GAZ-31013 (Volga 3102 with ZMZ-505 V8).
Plus BRDM (multi-purpose military vehicle, ZMZ-41 engine).
A pain to find engines and parts. Parts cost more than new Benz's ones.
Production stopped.

2. Truck series - 4.25 and 4.7 litre engines.
Models: ZMZ-53/66, ZMZ-511/513, ZMZ-523 (4.7l)
Used on 4.25 litre was used on GAZ-53/66 trucks and its successors. 4.7 litre engine is used only on PAZ-3205 (GAZ-53 based small passenger bus).
The engines can be easily obtained. Widespread.
ZMZ-5XX series are still in production.

Now the most interesting. These 2 series aren't not interchangeable much. The heads have round ports on Chaikas and rectangular ones on trucks. Virtually, crankshafts are the only parts interchangeable. Other parts will need to be forced to fit.

p.s. American cars in the USSR.http://www.freedomcars.ru/retro/oldamcar.shtml

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