Re: Packard Request
Posted by Leeedy On 2015/9/30 22:38:42
Quote:
Ahhh... while I realize that these online "forums" are seen by many as places to have endless arguments, ongoing debates, guessing and supposition, I have neither guessed, nor used someone's web photos to determine what was on the Packard Request. I simply attempted to impart some facts-which I am often reluctant to do for this very reason.
As I have stated-and as impossible as this may seem to people on an internet "forum" in 2015, I had dear friends who actually built the car with their own hands for Packard. I was there. I saw the car when it was brand new... right where I could touch it and look at it up close-and not at a car show. I held the medallion in question in my own hands.
I also had friends who did the first cosmetic restoration on the Request. This is not conjecture, nor is it guessing. I was there when they did it and I have my own photos of me personally standing with the car when it was completed. I even supplied some of the parts for the restoration. So there is nothing here to debate or guess about or go over somebody's web photos to prove.
Here are MY photos...
As for the automotive meaning of "stock" versus "pilot pre-production" you are welcome to adhere to whatever definition you choose to make up and believe. But having spent my life as a professional in the auto industry and having been around my share of pre-production pilot cars, bodies-in-white and other such stuff... and having held membership in SAE... AND having coined some terms used in the industry, I have some idea of what I'm talking about.
And the differences between "stock" and "pilot pre-production" may or may not be subtle-but whatever those differences may be... they were/ARE still differences-as in not the same.
And there was never any mention of "hastily cobbled-up mule"... which is a statement no where included in what I have said. However, since we've now gone there, an engineering "mule" is hardly a pilot pre-production body. So again we are talking apples and oranges here. Nobody said that one was the other.
You can bolt the front clip of a 1956 Packard to a 1955 Clipper... but so what? You can bolt the front clip of a 1955 Pontiac onto a 1955 Chevy but so what? A 1955 Ford station wagon body is basically the same as a 1956 Mercury station wagon body. But what does any of this prove in terms of the Request and the body used to build it?? Nothing.
In American automotive jargon "stock" means (or used to mean) as in production stock... as in dealer or W-D or factory inventory. It does not mean anything that merely looks like stock. I realize the term has become wildly perverted over the years... but this is what happens with terminologies get twisted to mean whatever someone or some group decides they want them to mean. All of which is why nobody knows what the ding-dong is being said by the auction companies when they proudly tell you on TV that "this beautiful classic has been..." "restified"..."resto-modded"..."resto-rodded"..."tributed" or any of the other mumbo-jumbo being used today to describe things. But it is what it is.
But whatever anyone, anywhere chooses to call it, the Request body was not stock. It was a pilot pre-production body done so early that the fittings and tail light assemblies had yet to go into regular production and thus had to be hand-made. And that's all I have to say on the matter.
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BH wrote:
Quote:RE: the "plastic crest cast into the fiberglass hood"...
Not sure whether I got the notion that the crest was plastic from an old magazine article or that I (mistakenly) assumed that the builder had borrowed a piece from the '54 Seniors. Perhaps I misinterpreted the use of the term 'cast' in that context.
Regardless, here's a nice view of that detail on the car from another site:http://www.conceptcarz.com/view/photo/1187884,23811/1955-Packard-Request-Concept_photo.aspx
...which appears to show a polished/plated and colored metal part. Sure looks a lot like the same pattern as used for the plastic crest (to me).
Quote:RE: "stock 1955-400" ...
I understand the purpose of pilot production vehicles. However, the 'hand-constructed' parts that you (Leeedy) cited are only trim pieces, and we have seen several examples of changes in trim from pre-production (as shown in the early 55th Series brochures) and even running changes during the production year (such as the 55th Series Clipper side trim). I even had a couple of original Patrician rear door (spear) moldings that were cast in bronze.
However, it's not like the Request was some hastily cobbled-up mule. I doubt that the regular production body shell would have changed so much from the pilot run that the Request front clip could not have bolted right up to ANY 55th Series Four Hundred. Heck, we've seen '55 front fenders installed on '56 models and vice versa, and I'm sure you know the subtle difference betwewen the two.
Anyway, thanks for providing further details.
Ahhh... while I realize that these online "forums" are seen by many as places to have endless arguments, ongoing debates, guessing and supposition, I have neither guessed, nor used someone's web photos to determine what was on the Packard Request. I simply attempted to impart some facts-which I am often reluctant to do for this very reason.
As I have stated-and as impossible as this may seem to people on an internet "forum" in 2015, I had dear friends who actually built the car with their own hands for Packard. I was there. I saw the car when it was brand new... right where I could touch it and look at it up close-and not at a car show. I held the medallion in question in my own hands.
I also had friends who did the first cosmetic restoration on the Request. This is not conjecture, nor is it guessing. I was there when they did it and I have my own photos of me personally standing with the car when it was completed. I even supplied some of the parts for the restoration. So there is nothing here to debate or guess about or go over somebody's web photos to prove.
Here are MY photos...
As for the automotive meaning of "stock" versus "pilot pre-production" you are welcome to adhere to whatever definition you choose to make up and believe. But having spent my life as a professional in the auto industry and having been around my share of pre-production pilot cars, bodies-in-white and other such stuff... and having held membership in SAE... AND having coined some terms used in the industry, I have some idea of what I'm talking about.
And the differences between "stock" and "pilot pre-production" may or may not be subtle-but whatever those differences may be... they were/ARE still differences-as in not the same.
And there was never any mention of "hastily cobbled-up mule"... which is a statement no where included in what I have said. However, since we've now gone there, an engineering "mule" is hardly a pilot pre-production body. So again we are talking apples and oranges here. Nobody said that one was the other.
You can bolt the front clip of a 1956 Packard to a 1955 Clipper... but so what? You can bolt the front clip of a 1955 Pontiac onto a 1955 Chevy but so what? A 1955 Ford station wagon body is basically the same as a 1956 Mercury station wagon body. But what does any of this prove in terms of the Request and the body used to build it?? Nothing.
In American automotive jargon "stock" means (or used to mean) as in production stock... as in dealer or W-D or factory inventory. It does not mean anything that merely looks like stock. I realize the term has become wildly perverted over the years... but this is what happens with terminologies get twisted to mean whatever someone or some group decides they want them to mean. All of which is why nobody knows what the ding-dong is being said by the auction companies when they proudly tell you on TV that "this beautiful classic has been..." "restified"..."resto-modded"..."resto-rodded"..."tributed" or any of the other mumbo-jumbo being used today to describe things. But it is what it is.
But whatever anyone, anywhere chooses to call it, the Request body was not stock. It was a pilot pre-production body done so early that the fittings and tail light assemblies had yet to go into regular production and thus had to be hand-made. And that's all I have to say on the matter.
Attach file:
(90.33 KB)
(115.45 KB)
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