Re: Ok, I'm calling your bluff. Show me how Packards were "better".

Posted by su8overdrive On 2012/7/4 19:41:17

Thank you, sir. I vowed after learning of this wonderful, exceeding rare site early this year, that i'd visit, yet only post the once in a blue moon tech question, as i've long since said everything i had to say.

When i approached 40 posts, i thought, that's a good cut off, downright poetic, given the '40 120 i owned years ago.
Then 50, then 100, a nice round figure and what's this, i'd magically transformed from a not too shy to talk blushing bride to hoary auld home away from Homer.

When i hit 120 recently, i swore "that's it." But i'm occasionally whelmed by the thoughtfulness, and field of vision, encountered on Packard Info's forums. All the more so as over at the 1941 Cadillac Club of America and even a certain other site celebrating East Grand, there seem to be a reluctance of members to air dirty laundry, let it all hang out, full disclosure to the extent we freely do here, and thank you again, Chancellor Kev.

Thankfully, there are enough folk here gathered able to appreciate the reality of Packard, without the boosterism of many clubs, where members feverishly fan myth and legend to inflate their rolling nest eggs. As mentioned, the upbeat folk at www.railton.org are a notable exception, likely as they're having too much fun with their survivors.

Onward. May've mentioned, but a friend took his nice, solid, original '38 Twelve victoria to a NYC area CCCA meet in 1959. No sooner had he parked and his bride deplaned, when a couple noses in the air sorts sauntered over and pooh poohed his car because it wasn't a 1933-34 Packard, with the more elegant clamshell fenders.
But i agree, as does my friend, who owned an earlier Packard 745 phaeton. The pontoon fenders were not elegant. Even those on my '40 lacked the dash Buick retained in their pontoons, their funky external trunk hinges and other Generous Motors touches notwithstanding.

However, i disagree about 127" wheelbases being too short for senior cars. In fact, i considered, decades ago, before i bought my '47 Super, buying a black, as it happened, '47 Deluxe Eight on the 120" wheelbase. It was and is a wonderfully sized car. The seven inches may've been taken entirely from the hood and front fenders, but there was nothing snubnosed about it. As i mentioned here coupla months ago, this is the same wheelbase as the postwar R-R Silver Dawn/Bentley R-Type. But with just a trace of upscaling, certainly losing those bulky postwar bumper extensions or "fender shields," in Packard parlance,
and that heavy, needless postwar front license plate bracket, as i did on my '47 Super,

AND

some magazine advertising of the caliber Packard used throughout the '20s, early '30s,

well, Packard would've had something. That easy elegance, on a nimble 120" wb, 3,500-odd lb. shipping weight, 225 ft. lbs. torque with overdrive. That's all anyone needs, and i would've been happy.

My '47 Super is on the same 127" wb as the postwar R-R Silver Wraith. It's a big car, larger than what i'm usually drawn to, but i like the 1941-47 Clipper lines on the two shorter wheelbases. You couldn't pay me to own a Clipper limo, tho' i gather Packard had to offer such monstrosity for the corporate/hire car market, requisite in the luxe biz.

Similarly, there's nothing "sport" about a 138" wheelbase, whether it's a 1940-41 One-Eighty 1807 Darrin "Sport" Sedan, or '41 LeBaron "Sport" Brougham. No more than there's anything "sport" about a SUV. Sorry, but a sports car means two seats, floorshift-- and not an automatic, even today-- and nimble, whether coupe or roadster. That's it.

But Packard was around to sell cars, as was Chevrolet, when they, also, in 1940 or '41, marketed a "sport sedan."

Now, the big '30s Packards on 134" and 139" wheelbases
were horses of a different color. They were also from a more innocent and technologically less advanced era, when size meant power and prestige. Those bumper weights weren't there for eye candy.

Respectfully, suggesting a generous 127" wb wasn't suitable for seniors from 1939-47 (your preceding post)flies in the face of reality. NO ONE was still producing firetrucks in that era. Such outsized Classics were already consigned to the back rows of used car lots. No one wanted them, until a few young fellows started the CCCA in 1952, and Packard Automobile Classics (PAC) in 1953, and even then they remained second tier collectibles until the early '70s.


Over the years, i've had people of a certain age, old enough to readily think of automobiles as computers when they hear the word PACKARD, ask if my '47 Super was

"....one of those big Jaguar sedans from the '50s?"

"....a custom-bodied Bentley?"

"....a Buick?"

"....a Cadillac?"

One 30-something happening dude asked, with great awe and reverence, on seeing only the rear end of my fender skirted barouche,

"....is that one of those James Dean Mercuries?"

And once, a fellow clearly old enough to remember when such were new, on seeing only the front end, asked,

"....What is that, a '40 LaSalle?"

But, 'umbly, i've never had anyone suggest or even noisily think, that my '47 Super, or, in fairness, a friend's deep, bottle green '39 Cadillac 60S on a similar wheelbase, looked "....plump stubby."

Sink me, my '47's but a mere inch shy of 18 feet overall length.

How much more car do you want? Few people wanted, and want, to drive a schoolbus or firetruck. If you can't get elegance on a generous 127", driver-friendly wheelbase,
you're in the wrong business. That's ten (10) feet, seven (7) inches between wheel centers.

That is sufficient, thank you.

Talbot-Lago managed sleek, closed luxury on only 104 inches of wheelbase. Railton offered bespoke saloons on-- like the 1942-47 Packard Clippers and postwar Rolls-Royce/Bentley-- both 120- and 127-inch wheelbases.
It comes down to whether you want a luxurious road car, or elegant firetruck.
Perhaps some of us like the 1941-47 Packard Clipper not just for its superior driveability over the handsome '30s firetrucks, but because Darrin's themes reek of internationalism, one of those rare cars that can look bespoke from the factory line.

Anyone can make a car half a block long look elegant. Now try it in a realistic size that will find buyers.

Finally, as also mentioned coupla months ago here, so much of Packard's Macbeth tragedy might've been avoided had they learnt to make their exterior trim richer looking, a la GM, and more adroitly marketed their cars as town and country, personal/family, whatever phrase you like, much as R-R/Bentley unloaded their increasingly rationalized, assembled, overrated, postwar boutique 120/127" wb product, entirely avoiding this moronic junior/senior nonsense,

just sell the blinking cars, as GM then, BMW and Mercedes today with their 3-, 5-, 7-Series, C-, E-, S-Class.

But now i've crossed the line into postmortems, which i detest, have NO use for.