Re: Packard Bikes
Posted by Leeedy On 2022/12/31 15:41:57
Quote:
NBHAA and myself have been identifying Packard bicycles for many decades now. We have over 80,000 original catalogues, books, publications, photos, factory documents and advertisements. Normally you would need to go to NBHAA and request a formal Official Detailed Report which requires a standard research fee.
But as a favor to you on this Packard Information forum as we head to the 2023 New Year, here is additional information. All for you and regarding the bicycle with the ASC "Packard" headbadge you have.
The one component (aside from the headbadge) that for sure is original Arnold, Schwinn & Company-made is the frame.
Your frame is one of what I call the DX series. Packard automobile people: I will translate this for you: DX = "junior series".... For images of a "senior" 1941 ASC-built Packard Bicycle, scroll back in this thread and see photos of my 1941 Schwinn-Built Packard Autocycle (a senior series) in 2-tone green.
Now. I am attaching an original ASC distributor sheet that shows the three lines of ASC-built "DX" models for 1940-1941. Your Packard bicycle would fall under the heading for either #2 or #3. The most deluxe frame with the spring fork differed slightly. One notable/visible difference: on most of these was a little tube welded onto the frame downtube just south of the head tube. The purpose of this little tube was to hold two rubber bumper tips. What was the purpose of these rubber tips and the metal tube that held them? They were there to catch the knee-action spring fork legs to prevent the fork legs from impacting (and thus denting) the horn tank.
Other than frame differences, there is no way to determine which trim level your frame originally had– based on appearance now or from the serial number. The ASC factory didn't keep such records. The only thing I can tell you for sure in this regard is that it was not the top-of-the-line special series because your frame does not have provision for the fork bumper. There were occasional wholesale-distributor (W-D) exceptions to this bumper/stop rule but most followed what we tell you here.
As you can see in the literature, the seat is different (a Mesinger Model "B"); the chain guard is different and the fenders were much fatter. While the slim 1939-style fenders still managed to be installed on some 1939-1/2 models (which people today would call "1940") the usual 1940-42 fenders were fatter as you see in the literature provided here.
The original headlight was also very different. The headlight was a painted prewar "torpedo" type that loaded D-cell batteries from the front.
This same frame was made between 1940-1942. 1942 Models deleted the horn tanks even though they are shown in some literature (WW2 metal use restrictions). It was made in different frame heights with the seatpost tube being longer in "tall" frames. The DX series did not return until after the war and again, was somewhat different.
The name "Packard" on these bicycles was not a "model" like "Caribbean" or "180" or "120." The Packard name on these models was merely a name selected by the wholesaler or retailer out of many that were available. No matter who will tell you otherwise. It was not a model name and thus there were numerous configurations and trim levels possible on a Schwinn-Built "Packard" bicycle.
Who else tells you this stuff?
Happy New Year.
Attach file:
Packard1941ASCmodelsWM.jpeg (391.64 KB)
Luvmyboyz wrote:
Here are a few more. I have taken a lot already just kinda figuring this forum out
NBHAA and myself have been identifying Packard bicycles for many decades now. We have over 80,000 original catalogues, books, publications, photos, factory documents and advertisements. Normally you would need to go to NBHAA and request a formal Official Detailed Report which requires a standard research fee.
But as a favor to you on this Packard Information forum as we head to the 2023 New Year, here is additional information. All for you and regarding the bicycle with the ASC "Packard" headbadge you have.
The one component (aside from the headbadge) that for sure is original Arnold, Schwinn & Company-made is the frame.
Your frame is one of what I call the DX series. Packard automobile people: I will translate this for you: DX = "junior series".... For images of a "senior" 1941 ASC-built Packard Bicycle, scroll back in this thread and see photos of my 1941 Schwinn-Built Packard Autocycle (a senior series) in 2-tone green.
Now. I am attaching an original ASC distributor sheet that shows the three lines of ASC-built "DX" models for 1940-1941. Your Packard bicycle would fall under the heading for either #2 or #3. The most deluxe frame with the spring fork differed slightly. One notable/visible difference: on most of these was a little tube welded onto the frame downtube just south of the head tube. The purpose of this little tube was to hold two rubber bumper tips. What was the purpose of these rubber tips and the metal tube that held them? They were there to catch the knee-action spring fork legs to prevent the fork legs from impacting (and thus denting) the horn tank.
Other than frame differences, there is no way to determine which trim level your frame originally had– based on appearance now or from the serial number. The ASC factory didn't keep such records. The only thing I can tell you for sure in this regard is that it was not the top-of-the-line special series because your frame does not have provision for the fork bumper. There were occasional wholesale-distributor (W-D) exceptions to this bumper/stop rule but most followed what we tell you here.
As you can see in the literature, the seat is different (a Mesinger Model "B"); the chain guard is different and the fenders were much fatter. While the slim 1939-style fenders still managed to be installed on some 1939-1/2 models (which people today would call "1940") the usual 1940-42 fenders were fatter as you see in the literature provided here.
The original headlight was also very different. The headlight was a painted prewar "torpedo" type that loaded D-cell batteries from the front.
This same frame was made between 1940-1942. 1942 Models deleted the horn tanks even though they are shown in some literature (WW2 metal use restrictions). It was made in different frame heights with the seatpost tube being longer in "tall" frames. The DX series did not return until after the war and again, was somewhat different.
The name "Packard" on these bicycles was not a "model" like "Caribbean" or "180" or "120." The Packard name on these models was merely a name selected by the wholesaler or retailer out of many that were available. No matter who will tell you otherwise. It was not a model name and thus there were numerous configurations and trim levels possible on a Schwinn-Built "Packard" bicycle.
Who else tells you this stuff?
Happy New Year.
Attach file:
Packard1941ASCmodelsWM.jpeg (391.64 KB)
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