Re: Direct Drive Clutch not opening on Throttle Input ('54 non-gear-start type)
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Home away from home
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53 Cavalier wrote:
I guess I was classifying Type F ATF as an "old" ATF, as opposed to the "modern" Dexrons or Mercons. From past posts I was under the impression that Type F was the best for the Ultramatics, and the primary reason was because the direct drive could/would slip with Dexron or Mercon and was due to the clutch composition, which may be something that I made up in my head. Bit of a history lesson. The first automatic transmissions simply used engine oil but engines and transmissions have slightly different requirements for an optimal fluid. For example, there are no combustion gases to neutralize in a transmission. But also a transmission does not get as hot, so condensation is not easily boiled off. To fix this problem, GM released Type A fluid, made by GM and Texamatic (Packard used Texamatic formulas). EVERY transmission in those days used Type A; there was no other option (though there were some minor variations/improvements over time). So any difference in lining wear in 50's automatics is NOT due to transmission fluid incompatibility, it's due to the design. Yes the harsh shifts of the Hydramatic and the clutches running away in the Ultramatic occurred with the same fluid and lining materials. Considering this, people tried Type F fluid, released by Ford in 1967, in their Ultramatics. Type F was designed by Ford to give a firmer clutch engagement. This eased the high clutch wear often seen in the Ultramatics (especially in the HRC pack in the TU units). Brian, in the post you referenced, brought up a couple of interesting points. He noticed a "moan" for the DD clutch under light throttle when using Dexron, which was remedied by switching to Type F. Something that has been reported by others. Presumably the groan is the DD clutch slipping before it fully engages. He also suggested that possibly a smoother shift may be achieved with Dexron because it is more slippery, but maybe that may also cause faster wear of the linings. I can see where smoother shifting would be desirable, but not if the trade off is a transmission that moans as the DD engages. Is the "moan" caused by an incorrect combination of fluid and clutch materials, or simply the mechanics of the transmission? That is, are Dextron or Mercon, in general, are always going to be too slippery for our Ultramatics? I am currently running Type F with a bottle of Lucas Transmission Fix. It's important to note that the original cork linings and the modern linings don't have the same coefficient of friction. It's my understanding that cork was more frictive. So even though DEXRON is the correct successor fluid to Type A, it's not surprising that slipping has been reported when using it with modern materials, since Packard engineered a very soft/smooth shift. Obviously this problem will be exacerbated by a transmission fluid change on a rebuilt transmission with some mileage, as the clutches will already have some wear. Note, this is one of the times that a slight increase to throttle pressure can be a large help, as it increases engagement pressures except at full throttle driving. Using Type F with modern materials gives a firm, positive shift. Only if you have a highly original car that is known to have old type linings should you use DEXRON IMHO. As I work towards rebuilding a transmission for my car, I find this is all very interesting! I guess what I'm trying to figure out is what is ideal for my Ultramatic. Baring any issues, such as excessive wear, should I get a rebuild kit from MM (KIT INCLUDES GASKETS, SEALS, BUSHINGS, AND HIGH RANGE FIBER CLUTCHES) and continue running Type F? Mostly a question of how much money you want to throw at it. The frugal approach is to tear it down and see which bearings and clutches are actually worn out and go from there. Obviously will want to replace every seal and gasket regardless. Everyone in Ultramatic-world that I've spoken with, who's worth their salt, runs Type F. There's also Type FA if your other hobby is lighting $100 bills on fire, and B&M Trick Shift which is pretty darn similar to Type F in performance. I find that my DD engages quite smoothly, which may very well be due to a "hard", or worn, DD clutch that is slipping more than it should when the DD is engaging. Just drive up to a moderate speed (30 mph?) and let the clutch engage. Then punch the gas to full throttle without entering kickdown. The car should accelerate normally. If there is engine flare or an odd sensation (not lugging), then your clutch is slipping. But if doesn't slip during this test then it never realistically will. I'm going to ask MM if they have a ATF recommendation after installing their rebuild kit. I'm curious what they have to say as I don't think anyone that works there is actually knowledgeable about these to a decent level, except just the parts in them. BTW, it is raining in my part of the world, so I'm waiting to go for a test drive to see what I can figure out with my kick down. P.S. Here is a photo of some relined clutches. From left to right: 9" clutch, Max Merritt 9" clutch, Vendor 'C' 9" clutch, Vendor 'A' 11¼" clutch (appears to be newly lined cork material)
Posted on: 9/20 21:10
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1955 400 | Registry | Project Blog
1955 Clipper Deluxe | Registry | Project Blog 1955 Clipper Super Panama | Registry |
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Re: Packard Crest/Script Blankets
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Home away from home
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Looks nice. I'll be ordering one soon. Another thought would be a slip cover style or small size for a 12/16 inch pillow. My daughter is short and so I keep a pillow in the back for when she drives (better for her than dealing with the slide of the seat).
Posted on: 9/20 20:38
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Re: 1951 Packard Deluxe wiper vacuum hoses
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Home away from home
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This is my 53 with the washer.
I don't know this for certain, but I would think it's a good idea to put a little cap on that port if it's open, just to prevent debris from possibility getting into your wiper motor. It's important to lubricate your wiper motor periodically as well.
Posted on: 9/20 20:06
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Re: 1951 Packard Deluxe wiper vacuum hoses
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Just popping in
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Thanks guys. You have answered my question. Mine does not have the washer so I can ignore the drivers side of the wiper motor.
Posted on: 9/20 19:35
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Re: Setting Timing on a Packard Six
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Quite a regular
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Howard and Mr. D,
Thanks for the info, the picture of the engine showing the location of the peephole was quite amusing. A previous owner did install a pointer that leans over the harmonic balancer pulley, but there are no real timing marks, just what I first thought was a rock chip in the paint that seems to be in the vicinity of where a timing mark might be located. Guess I will use it as a reference until I install something better. Seems I read online about something called "timing tape" that can be installed on the outer surface of the balancer to use when setting the timing. Thanks as well for the tip on using a vacuum gauge to fine-tune the timing.
Posted on: 9/20 18:50
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Re: 1924 Sport 136
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Webmaster
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It's always the small details that take the most time!
80/20 Rule.
Posted on: 9/20 18:34
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-BigKev
1954 Packard Clipper Deluxe Touring Sedan -> Registry | Project Blog 1937 Packard 115-C Convertible Coupe -> Registry | Project Blog |
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Re: 1924 Sport 136
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Home away from home
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Before I report on the overhaul of the engine, I would like to say something about the components that are directly attached to the engine and that have to be installed in order to progress the work to the point where the engine can be started for a test.
First … there are the two side panels that cover the area between the engine and the frame. Both sheets were in poor condition and the rusted areas had been filled with fiberglass mats. I also had to recreate these sheets. At first it looked problem-free, but then it turned out to be more difficult than expected. The problem was that I simply used the two old sheets as samples. But I didn't notice that the two outer edges of the sheets don't have to be at the same height. The side screwed to the motor runs horizontally. The slope screwed to the frame rises upwards as the frame becomes smaller in height. As a result, the surface of the entire sheet is twisted. Mainly the half funnel inserted/welded into the sheet and the recesses/edges do not allow the sheet to be subsequently deformed so that it adapts to the different heights. I also had to cut the half-funnel out of the “finished” component again and I screw the sheets to the engine and frame without this part, then I formed a new half-funnel and insert it into the now existing cutout and mark it. Then cut the half funnels again and fix them in their now correct position with welding points. Remove everything again, finish welding and you have the sheets as they should be. However, 2 days of additional work had gone by tougether with priming and painting. Finishing the sheets was necessary to make the connecting pipe between the newly built muffler and the exhaust manifold so that it passes with a good gap between the engine mount and the cover plate. Karl
Posted on: 9/20 17:04
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Re: The Duchess Project: 1940 Super 8 Convertible Sedan
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Home away from home
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Couple more photos of today. Cruising in Packard luxurious comfort. No convertible rattles.
Attach file: Two-1940-Super-Eight-Packards--9-20-24-1000181.jpg (2,865.85 KB) Packards,-Chuck,-Jim,-Joe--9-20-24-1000212.jpg (2,367.92 KB) Joe-and-Jim-in-Packard,-9-20-24-1000237.jpg (2,285.58 KB)
Posted on: 9/20 14:56
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Re: Presentation
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Webmaster
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We are going back this February (2025) for ArtDeco fest. The Packard Rally only happens every two years, so that will be 2026 on the South Island. Once I get the firm details, I will pass them along.
Posted on: 9/20 14:48
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-BigKev
1954 Packard Clipper Deluxe Touring Sedan -> Registry | Project Blog 1937 Packard 115-C Convertible Coupe -> Registry | Project Blog |
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