BIGKEV: The fourth picture you took is of a 1954 Packard Pacific Hardtop Coupe body style number 5477 with a base price $3825.00.

Picture 23 is of a 1953 Packard Caribbean

Picture 3 is of a 1956 Packard Patrician Sedan boby style 5682

Picture 4 is of a 1951 or 1952 Mayfair Hardtop Coupe body style 2467 for 1951 and body style 2577 for 1952.

Picture 9 is of a 1948 Super Eight 4 door sedan body style 2272, or it could possibly be body style 2262.

Picture 1 is of 1937 Cord 812 Beverly because of the becasue of the visible truck.


John F. Shireman

Packard8: Let me point out a mistake that you have made. If you go back and read the first post I made in this thread. I never made a statement that the Packard was on display at the AACA Musuem in Hershey. I think that I made it clear the pictures of the Packard and the mistake laiden sign were taken in Harrisburg, Penna. at the new car show in the Farm Show Arena. So it would have been very hard for the mistake laiden sign, to get the attention of people visiting the AACA museum in Hershey.

John F. Shireman

Clipper47: The statement in my first post stating that the car on display was actualy a 1937,was designed to get the AACA attension, to get them to correct the mistakes they made on thier dislay sign. I would say it worked.

I sure do like this kind of exchange. You win a new a 1965 Packard V12, for catching my intensional mistake about the the Convertible Sedan only being offered only one year. I tried to leave a hint that production actually stopped in 1937. When I stated that Murray built this body style of Packard and Lincoln until 1937.

Now it is very intersting to see which research material is correct yours or mine. My reference material for the Packard 120 for 1937 indicates the body style listed for
the Covertible Sedan is body style 1097. The base price is listed at $ 1550.00 and shipping weight of 3630. The Packard lineup for 1937 was intoduced in September 1936.


John F. Shireman

PeterG: Here is some more information I have on the 1936 Packard Convertible Sedan. This inforamtion comes from my
automotive research library.

The base price isn't unknow and had Jeff gone over to the AACA Library and done some research, he would have found that the car has a base price of around $ 1400.00 and a shipping weight of 3660.

The Convertible Sedan was certainly not a knew body style in the Packard lineup for 1936. Howver having made that statement, the Convertible Sedan was a new body style for the Packard 120 line up for 1936. The Covertible Sedan body option was offered for one year only, being dropped for the 1937 model year.

The body wasn't actualy built by Dietrich, the body was built for Packard by Murray. Murray only put Dietrich tags on the bodies they built. The line of Convertible Sedan bodies that Murray designed for Packard and Lincoln were built from 1935 through 1937.

John F. Shireman

JT2: This coming summer in July when I go to Warren for the Packard Meet. I will take copy of the picture I took of the AACA display sign. I will tell the people running the Packard Museum
that they have been wrong all along as to who founded Packard according to the AACA. The founder is James Ward Parker, and that he bought his first car in 1899 rather than August 13,1898 as James Ward Packard did.

John F. Shireman

Jim: Thanks for getting back on this matter so fast. I took the information you people had printed on the display sign and looked at as a person who might be interested in Packards and might do some research.

If that average person does some research on the history of Packard and research on the information given about the Packard that was on display, that person can come away very confused, about what is actually the truth. The sign is full of errors right from the beginig to the end, that its not even funny. Let me just skip over the errors in the sign on Packard history.

So the average persons takes the information that you give on the car based on the horse power and the statement that the cars has a long wheel base. Go to his reference book sees the all the 120 models for 1936 are rated at 120 hp with a wheel base of 120 inches. Go to the next section of his reference book sees a listing of 130 horse power engine for the senior model straight eight and sees bigger wheel bases for those models longer than 120 inches. Looks at the body styles under the senior line for 1936 and see convertible sedan all the door are hinged on the B pillar and the bumpers look different, from the model he has seen on display at Harrisburg. Then the fellow figures some body has made a mistake. So he takes the information given him and goes to the 1937 models and see no convertible sedan listed under the 120 model line for 1937. Goes to the senior model line and sees listing for an engine of 130 horsepower and sees a listing for convertible sedan, and see a picture of the car notes that the front doors are hinged on the A pillar and the back doors are hinged on the B pillar. Looks at the style of bumper on the senior models for 1937 and comes to the conclusion that this has to be a 1937 Packard Senior model.

So just for the heck of it I loudly took the position that it was a 1937 Senior Packard model, to get a responce from the AACA to point out the fact that when you print information that is incorrect like you did about the car and the history of the company, you are doing the general public a great dis-service.

The bottom line to all this is that make sure the information you print about a car or the history of the company that produced the car is correct. I just can't understand with all the fine research materials that the AACA library has, the fine museum that you are part of, that such errors could happen.


John Shireman

I will post my answer tonight when I have more time


John F. Shireman

Kevin: I know that the people at the display that day were
volunteers who certainly wouldn't have known. However I have been to AACA Museum a couple of times. I know that some of the people running the museum are paid employes, and the people from the museum probably transported the cars there to Harrisburg from Hershey and setup the display, being as the cars are part of the museums collections. There for the information printed on the signs also had to have been printed at the museum.

I know every body makes mistakes, but having said that, the paid people running the museum and incharge of setting up the display are just being plain sloppy in doing there jobs.

Its not the volunteers fault for the screw up, its the paided staff of the AACA that is the fault for this. If they are going to be paided to put fourth the history of this hobby, then they should pay attention to the fine details of things.


John F. Shireman

When this time of year comes around I always go to the new car show at in Harrisburg Penna. As is the case every year the AACA Museum located in Hershey allways has small display of cars. Again this year they were there putting on the same pitch for the AACA Museum. One of the cars that was on display that caught my attention was a Packard which they claimed was a 1936 Packard. I took a few pictures of the Packard which I posted earlier in another thread. In front of the car was a display sign telling about the car which I took a picture of but never bothered reading at the time.

Yesterday I went throught and did a review of the pictures I took. I decided to take a look at the picture of the sign they had in front of the Packard. After reading the information they posted and doing some more research, I just shook my head in dis-may and starting laughing at how dumb some so-called experts realy are.

They stated that Packard was founded by James Ward Parker, and that he purchased his first car in 1899. They also gave some history of the Packard claiming that the Packard was a 1936 Packard Convertible Sedan. Here is what I found wrong with the information on the sign. Below in this thread are three pictures one of the Packard, the other of the dispaly sign in fornt of the 1937 Packards. The last picture posted is a side view of the Packard to proof that it is a 1937 as I have stated.

1. James Ward Parker never founded Packard as far as I know.

2. James Ward Packard who help found Packard purchased his first car in August 1898, which was a Winton.

3. The Packard they had on display turns out not to be a 1936 as they claimed. The Packard on display in actually a
1937 Convertible Sedan.

There is just no excuse for this kind of mistake by the AACA, considering all the research material that they have in their library.

John F. Shireman

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BIG KEVIN: You win half the prize for the trip to the middle of Lake Erie. You ae right that an lsd was also introduced by Studebaker in 1956. How ever the lsd wasn't offered on any other Studebaker automobiles. It was introduced on thier half ton trucks for 1956.

How I know that for a fact is that I just purchased a book titled American Light-Duty Trucks 1896 to 2000. This is a very complete on nearly every light truck produced in the USA.. Another book to add to my reference library.


John F. Shireman