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Board index » All Posts (Scott_Noga)




Re: Docs for a newly purchased '49 2301 in 1949..
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Scott
Quote:

HH56 wrote:
Even then dealers would try and separate a customer from his money...The $15 for a wash, polish and wax must have been one fine job when you consider what the OD, heater and radio cost in comparison. Why it would be wanted or needed on a new car is another question.


Per the CPI inflation calculator, $15 in 1949 would be equivalent to $150 today. I hope they weren't expecting a tip.

Posted on: 2014/8/17 12:34
1942 Clipper Club Sedan
1948 Custom Touring Sedan (22nd Series)
1955 Patrician Sedan
1955 400 Sedan
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Re: 21st series upholstery piping
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Scott
The upholstery in my 23rd series Custom is original. The piping and windlace and headliner are all very close to the same color (though the headliner is a bit darker), with maroon seat fabric and carpeting. I'd describe the piping/windlace color as grey to light tan. In other words, beige.

Given the choice of a slight color deviation from original and a headliner to windlace/piping mismatch, I think I'd choose the former. From a design standpoint I think it looks better to carry a single highlight color from the headliner around the interior to accentuate the seat/floor color than to have three or four different colors that are close but don't match. My opinion. But I wouldn't anguish over it too much. I don't think the original headliner matched perfectly.

I've attached a couple of pictures.

Resized Image
Resized Image

Posted on: 2014/8/17 12:17
1942 Clipper Club Sedan
1948 Custom Touring Sedan (22nd Series)
1955 Patrician Sedan
1955 400 Sedan
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Re: Brake drum removal 1948 22nd Series
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Scott
1. Movement does occur when the drum expands due to the high heat from the brakes. The drum will creep onto the tapered shaft. This high pressure movement can result in some galling. It doesn't take much to form a bond.

2. MoM is a dry and very thin film like a powder. It's not a lubricant but inhibits metal transfer and is tolerant of high heat. The problem with commercial antisieze is that it is heavy bodied -- basically a light grease with metal powder. Use MoM and the drums won't be so hard to remove when the next brake job comes around. I've not used commercial antisieze on brake drums but did try it for a short while on small engine flywheels that can also be very difficult to remove down the road when assembled clean. That resulted in flywheels shearing the key during use so I abandoned that product and went back to the MoM. No more problems.

3. Lubricant on the shaft or nut will not give what I would call a false torque reading. General torque tables publish two torque values, dry and lubricated, which are slightly different. They are equally valid. As for the specific application under discussion, the torque value is not precise but is a pretty wide range. It's a castellated nut that must be aligned for the cotter key. Assuming undamaged threads the difference between dry and lubed is less than the published range. BTW, who said anything about lubricating the threads? I must have missed that.

4. Did someone say rust holds the joint together? I stated it didn't. Someone suggested that MoM, if not dried first, could contribute to rust. I stated it's not an issue.

5. It doesn't take 40 years for creep to occur. A few heating/cooling cycles under pressure will bond them quite well. After that, on a clean joint absent a barrier, bonding on the molecular scale will continue slowly over time. So even if the car sits and does not undergo additional heating cycles the parts will continue to increase their bond.

6. I have a very heavy duty drum puller that has a handle designed to accept the blows of a sledgehammer (and it has received many). I've removed lots of drums from cars that have not been serviced for many years and they can be a bear. Rosebud acetyl/O2 heating torch and hammer blows and patience will eventually get them to part company but in these difficult cases I find the surfaces are no longer smooth but are roughened due to some metal transfer. As an aside, in one strange case a pea-sized lump of metal came off the shaft with the drum about a half inch from the end of the taper. That's the only time I've seen two parts weld together so strongly in one spot.

Posted on: 2014/7/13 18:38
1942 Clipper Club Sedan
1948 Custom Touring Sedan (22nd Series)
1955 Patrician Sedan
1955 400 Sedan
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Re: Brake drum removal 1948 22nd Series
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Scott
The initial torque on the nut tensions the drum against the tapered shaft but this torque relaxes as the drum heats and cools. The drum expands and is pushed onto the shaft. It cools and tightens it's grip on the shaft. Friction is very high after a good heat cycle. The drum does not separate easily from the shaft even with a puller after this occurs.

MoM works just fine. It prevents galling and with the tight fitment the joint doesn't rust. No oxygen. A very light film of anti-seize grease could be used as well.

Scott

Posted on: 2014/7/12 0:30
1942 Clipper Club Sedan
1948 Custom Touring Sedan (22nd Series)
1955 Patrician Sedan
1955 400 Sedan
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Re: Brake drum removal 1948 22nd Series
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Scott
Regarding the disagreement about the tapered shaft vs. the key providing the transmission of torque: You're both right. How's that for settling an "argument"?

The very high tension on the drum against the tapered shaft provides substantial friction. Also, the key must shear before rotation occurs and it's function is to act as a "fuse". If rotational forces exceed a design limit determined by the frictional and shear sum, the key will shear, preventing broken axles or other major parts.

Two problems arise. I've once had the threaded portion of an axle snap off while driving. At that point there is little to prevent the wheel and drum from parting company with the vehicle. Without a drum there is total loss of both hydraulic and parking brakes on all wheels. Fortunately I was traveling slow at the time, heard a scraping noise and came to a stop with the drum almost off the axle, but not quite.

Another problem with tapered shafts is galling. Over time metal transfers from one surface to another practically welding them together. Good luck getting them separated. A simple old-time preventive is to coat the clean shaft with Milk of Magnesia (MoM). Plain or flavored is your choice, but I prefer plain. This prevents galling but does not impede the frictional properties.

Scott

Posted on: 2014/7/8 1:26
1942 Clipper Club Sedan
1948 Custom Touring Sedan (22nd Series)
1955 Patrician Sedan
1955 400 Sedan
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Re: Squealing Brake
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Scott
Interesting about the springs. I'm not sure the sound emanates from the drum. It sounds more like chattering shoes and the noise comes more from the backing plate, not the drums, but I could be wrong. It's not really a high pitched squeal like is sometimes heard from a brake, but a lower pitched howl. I probably didn't describe it very well.

The contact points on the backing plate are not excessively worn -- no groove -- but it looks like they would soon end up that way if I continued to drive the car with that howl. The metal was already worn rather shiny behind the shoes but had a rusty color when assembled. I reapplied a thin film of brake grease on those points while I had the shoes off for cleaning.

I took the car for a drive today. The howl is mostly gone. It was silent at first but with continued use it has resumed a faint howl within a certain range of moderate pedal pressure.

One thing I did not do as part of the brake job was to resurface the drums. They are very polished and wear appears even -- probably glazed. Deglazing likely would help. All I had done was to clean them out with steel wool. It's odd just the left front wheel made such a loud noise. That wheel does not have a history of leakage, but the right front wheel has had some minor leakage in the past. I did also install new wheel bearing seals when I replaced the brakes.

So if the problem persists I guess I'll have to pay more attention to the drums and scuff the surface.

Scott

Posted on: 2014/6/8 15:27
1942 Clipper Club Sedan
1948 Custom Touring Sedan (22nd Series)
1955 Patrician Sedan
1955 400 Sedan
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Re: Squealing Brake
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Scott
I checked the center pin on all four wheels as part of the adjustment following reassembly, ensuring the spacing between lining and drum is as even as possible. The drums have an inspection port for a feeler gauge.

There are no springs around the drum and no obvious provision for them. I thought those were intended to aid cooling, not for noise. I would think a spring would amplify noise, if anything.

I cleaned the linings on that wheel. There was already quite a bit of dust buildup due to the chattering shoes and they had turned from tan color to charcoal color. After cleaning them which restored the tan color the wear didn't look nearly as uneven as before they were cleaned. I haven't taken the car for a drive yet to see if it makes any difference.

I think the lining material is already at least partially chamfered at the ends but I'd have to look at them again to be sure. It may be only one shoe is or just the leading or trailing edges.

Scott

Posted on: 2014/6/8 1:15
1942 Clipper Club Sedan
1948 Custom Touring Sedan (22nd Series)
1955 Patrician Sedan
1955 400 Sedan
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Re: no compression
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Scott
If the engine has the original style cast iron valve guides, friction increases in the absence of the tetraethyl lead the engine was designed to run. The lead deposited in the pores of the cast iron and provided some lubricity.

On unleaded the likelihood of valves sticking increases and guide wear is accelerated. A preventive is to put a little hydraulic fluid in the gasoline. Automatic transmission fluid will work fine. If a lot is added it can produce white smoke but a little will do (<1/2 pint in a tankful) and there will be no visible smoke and no objectionable odor to speak of. (It actually doesn't burn very well in a low compression engine.)

Many products sold as "top end lube" gasoline additives are mostly hydraulic fluid.

Posted on: 2014/6/7 15:42
1942 Clipper Club Sedan
1948 Custom Touring Sedan (22nd Series)
1955 Patrician Sedan
1955 400 Sedan
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Squealing Brake
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Scott
I recently replaced the brakes on my '48 Custom with the Kanter kit -- shoes, cylinders, springs, master, hoses. The old shoes were not anywhere close to worn out but everything was old and one of the cylinders tended to stick so I opted to just replace everything.

I cleaned the backing plates and put a very thin film of ceramic high temp brake grease just on the contact pads for the shoes. The drums are in fine condition with smooth surface.

Everything went well for the first couple of short drives, but then the left front wheel began squealing loudly whenever the brakes are applied more than very lightly. I pulled the wheel off again and all looks fine except that the shoes do not appear to be contacting evenly. The ends of the secondary shoe, especially the upper, show some wear with none in the middle. The shoes are clean.

The other three wheels aren't making noise. Ideas?

Posted on: 2014/6/7 14:50
1942 Clipper Club Sedan
1948 Custom Touring Sedan (22nd Series)
1955 Patrician Sedan
1955 400 Sedan
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Re: 1948 Custom Kingpins
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Scott
The play is at top and bottom. I can see the spindle movement so it's not wheel bearings.

I guess I'll have to find a reamer tool. That's one item I don't yet have.

Posted on: 2014/4/2 22:09
1942 Clipper Club Sedan
1948 Custom Touring Sedan (22nd Series)
1955 Patrician Sedan
1955 400 Sedan
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