You are correct to question the L-29 question of only being 8 remaining. I too have seen tons of them in all states of condition but trying to relate the Packard 905 using the Cord L-29 "Sedan" similar style and size, there are only 8 of those body style models left.

Highlander 160... sent you a PM.

And please don't worry about adding to the conversation... the more the merrier and possibly stir up some memories or additional information!

I am sure it was a beast - by size and weight alone I heard when new published driving tests were not very favorable. Was hard to handle over 70 mph. Under 30mph the steering took some muscle so were not cars for women of the time to drive.

The 1932 V-12 was 9th series, not 10th. What does the book say about their numbers? This would be model numbers 905 and 906.

Yeah, it is kind of one of those things that was never approached before and isolated because of the scarcity of the cars. By serial number brackets (and someone else can correct me) it looks like less than 1,000 1932 V-12 were built and who knows how many still exist today? Like the mentioned Cord L-29 model FWD - there were over 5,000 built during its short run but only 8 exist today.

I think you will find quite a few people here that will argue the statement that the 10th series onwards for the next 20 years would go basically unchanged. The "X" concept, yes but design features and variants not shared between models abound (not to mention wheelbases).

So as far as the frame goes, it seems the 9th series V-12 had its own unique frame. The 8 cylinder series had a frame that carried over almost unchanged from 1932-1935 and in 1933 all models shared the same basic outline. In 1936 the design changed again.

So, I am hoping to hear from some folks I contacted that own 1932 Twin Six models and validate the unique chassis design which was most likely for the originally intended Front Wheel Drive.

Eric

Owen,

It is refreshing to find someone who knows automotive history.

Thomas "Tommy" W. Milton (first winner of the Indy 500) had designed a front wheel drive racer and Packard's chief engineer Col. Jesse Gurney Vincent had developed a V-12 engine. Milton was commissioned by Packard to develop a FWD and the new version V-12 engine design by Cornelius "C.W." Van Ranst. But the depression killed efforts to bring it to production and Packard paid $10k to Milton and Van Ranst for the rights and the new V-12 was introduced as a RWD in 1932.

This brings me back to the X frame question because the Cord L-29 frame was designed and patented by Van Ranst. The original ladder frame during the 1927 road trials failed to keep the car from twisting and rattling. Auburn's chief engineer Herbert C. Snow was on the trip and had remembered seeing a X Frame design on the Lancia Dilambda at the 1927 New York Auto Salon. He made scale models of the frame with an X brace which worked and was incorporated in Van Ranst's design. Assuming that the 1932 Packard Twin Six frame could be a one model, one year only design (waiting on a validation)... wonder if it was originally created for the FWD engine?

By the way, the Cord L-29 is NOT the first American automobile using an X frame design as many books have written. It was the 1929 Stutz Blackhawk - again a one model one year only design (no 1930s are recorded). Blackhawk was introduced in January 1929 while the Cord in August 1929 as a 1930 model year. And neither were the "first" production X as that can be traced back to the early 1920s in France.

Part of my X frame interest is for a book and part for personal collections such as the diagrams and dimensions.

Eric Huffstutler

[*Edit Update...Think I answered my own question providing that the 1933 V12 1005-1006 Owner's Manual shows the correct chassis... that the frame is different than the 1932 version and the 1933 looks like the other models. This again leads me to believe that the design was for the FWD on the 1932 V-12 model.]

Thanks John, I stand corrected

It is a 1931 prototype and found the pictures online.

For those unfamiliar with the way these early front wheel drive engines sat, and from what I read the concept came from the Cord L-29...the engines basically sit backwards. The transmission is in front but there is no long neck since there isn't a driveshaft so the transfer case is more compact. The fan still sits towards the radiator though.

Another question...

The chassis for the 1932 Twin Six, how many years was it used? Only 1932 or also in 1933? Seems the 1934 Twelve used a different frame similar to the Eight's? Any clarification on that?

Thanks!
Eric

The ZIL-ZIS-GAZ vehicles are of interest to me as well just because of the copycat properties if nothing else and think a section devoted to these cars are justified. Shouldn't feel bad about a disproportionate visitation because I am sure people who visit and post at the ZIL forum also look around in other folders and the website gets it exposure.

I am always interested in the frames-chassis of the various models.

Does anyone have photos or charts of the later ZIL models - such as the model 115, 117 and later chassis?

Thanks!
Eric

True, I have seen the 'ol switcheroo in different places. I can recall right off the frame dimension chart for the 1938-1939 Graham in our Chilton's Body-Frame book being completely different that the production car design.

Haven't seen anything on a front wheel drive Packard but do find a patent registered (submitted in 1934) for a rear engine car.

Maybe someone will find me some 1932 diagrams of some sort for the actual 1932? Thanks!

What is so odd is that you can clearly see the two distinctly different chassis designs in the above pictures but both came from two different "A Pre-View of the New Packard Twin-Six" brochure and the captions are identical. Possible they were going to use the other design at one point but decided to use it on the 8 cylinders instead hence possible artwork change? But then again, I am not sure and hoping someone with knowledge can answer the puzzle.

Anyone with diagrams of the 1932 model - even lube chart diagram? Thanks.

Eric