I did let Andy Griffith drive my V-12 once, but that was because he was a 1) neighor at the time so that I personally 2) knew he was well-aqauinted with manual transmissions and 3) knew I was nuts and would tear his head off if he damaged it....!

Seriously, I must have done fifty movie jobs over the years, and was yet to find a movie crew anything but sympathetic and cooperative. Of course I never EVER (except for Griffth) let anyone drive my car.

You have to bear in mind that PRODUCTION people are often "gear head" types who mostly LOVE old cars, and thus shoot lots of flim in lots of takes to get the cars looking "just right". I have seen some of the out-takes of my '38 V-12, just about all of them made the car look even more magnificent than it is.

And that explains why so much of what is shot, ends up on the "cutting room floor".

Film EDITORS, as distinguished from PRODUCTION people, are the "artsy craftsy" type. If they dont HATE and RESENT old big luxury cars to start with, they are at best indifferent, and dont want the magnificence of the car from detracting from the actors and/or story they are trying to tell. So much of what is shot involving collector cars, is destroyed.

In one case, I was part of a magnificent "shoot" in front of very expensive-to-built sets, involving literaly DOZENS of high dollar cars. Have no idea how much it cost to build the sets, or hire the cars. And it took several days to shoot, costs had to be in the MANY hundreds of thousands of dollars.

The Editors cut the entire scene, and re-called the actors to shoot a scene in a bar where they DISCUSSED what had happened with the cars, to give the picture "continuity", just so the cars wouldn't have "stolen the show".

This has happened so many times, that it became a running joke amongst fellow hi dollar car collectors in So. Calif. over the years.

ah yes - that paradise known as So. Calif. prior to the late 1950's...driving down to 19020 to Mike's place (with the big 'IMPEACH EARL WARREN' bill-board on the roof to get parts off of classic-era Packards - tearing up 101 to Santa Barbara and beyond before the Interstates and the freeways..

I happened to have been close to both Ted R.I.P & Charlie R.I.P. Ted "apprenticed" in Charlie's shop before I did. Ted did "drift away" from us owing to his problem with the sauce. But we all still loved him and he loved us. You guys simply do not know what you are talking about as to those relationships.

I apologize - I did not know what I was talking about, because I got confused as to who we were talking about and what facility. As to this "Fred" - never met him as far as I know - never worked for ECA. My mistake. Did hang around 1000 So. Hope street - ECA's personal World War I era Twin Six was still in the basement last time I was in there (probably 50+ years ago ! ). Met the salesman who delivered my own V-12 new!

Thought you were referring to ECL (Charlie Last did not like his first name, and made that known. At moment, cant recall what ECL's first name was, since I knew better than to call him by that ! (think it was "Earl" too. Cant recall).

P.S. - yes, I have seen "thin shell" (meaning pre-war) Packard rod bearings that "flaked". Not often, but have seen it.

Here's how you do it. You DONT change the engine oil, use only a non approved (meaning non-detergent) engine oil, and let it sit for a while. Then start it and run it for a while, then shut it off for another indeterminte period.

If you do that often enough over years - perhaps even months, - yes, you can get the "thin shell" copper-lead bearings to decay.

Nothing like a litte ignorance and abuse to ruin even a Packard engine.

Since I first went into Charlie Last's shop on Valley Blvd. in 1955, and clowned around with him till his death ( I was the guy who conducted his obit. at his funeral, and my Twelve led the procession to his grave-site,) I think I just might know who "worked for him". Would be curious to know who this "dear departed friend" would be. By chance you referring to Ted B ? (he is still dead..). His grave site is next to his first wife's. Her name was _______

To demonstrate that you DO know what you are talking about, tell us where on the engine block Charlie would "die stamp" his name, and what he'd done on any particular engine...(for some reason I never understood, he insisted on doing that "die stamping" bit himself - he even HID the damn dies!)

the reason the '35 - '39 V-12 rods were a one-piece forging was because of a "clearance" issue.

Here's the problem - look at a cross-section of a Packard V-12. When the stroke was increased from four to four and a quarter inches (for 1935 and later production), there WOULD have been "interference" between the crank-case walls, and a conventional-style connecting-rod.

You are correct that the '35 -'39 V-12 connecting rod was a superior VERY SERIOUS piece of metal ! It was a special chrome-moly, much tougher, more flexible, and durable than anything used anywhere in conventional automotive use.

I have seen LOTS of pre 1940 EIGHT cylinder Packard crank-cases with "patches" where a con. rod went thru the side of the crank-case. I have NEVER heard of a Packard V-12 tossing a con. rod.

Sad to say - the fastest way to RUIN a pre-war Packard engine, is to use poured babbit in the con rods. Even the Twelves have been ruined by that kind of butchery.

True, driven the way MOST people drove in the 1920's, at the speeds most people drove in the 1920's, you didn't see much rod bearing failure ( since most engines had to be overhauled by 30,000 miles anyway) (why ? well..no oil filters, no air/induction filters, primitive oil, etc.).

Trouble was, by the 1930's, cross-country high speed driving was possible, and con-rod bearing failures became epidemic.

Hopefully, this fellow who started this "thread" will get hold of a salvegable "Standard Eight" ( or 1937 - 1939 "Super" Eight) and get it fixed RIGHT (meaning "insert" type con. rod bearings).

One of our fellows here in Arizona made an interesting comment; poor fellow ran across some "experts" who got him into a VERY expensive bearing job. Sounds like it is a good job that should last well. In my view, was doing it the hard way.

I did not know that the "thin-shell" rod bearings designed by Packard and Federal Mogul, introduced in 1935 production, were "probmlamatical with many failures".

Packard didnt know it either (see the famous engineering test eval. after that famous "flat out pedal to the metal" demonstration Packard did with a Standard Eight to show off the then new technology).

I dont think Charle Last (R.I.P.) knew it either, as when I was in his shop, we turned out HUNDREDS of Packard eight and twelve cylinder engines, taking up any worn clearances in those original "problamatical" bearings with a little brass shim stock (that's how I did mine, in '55. )

Oh, by the way, my own Packard V-12 has now 160,000 HARD FAST miles on its original "thin-shell" rod bearings, 20 lbs. hot idle oil pressure with 10W-30 oil (yeah, gets nice and warm after an 80 mph "run" when it is over 100 degrees)...and it dosnt know Packard "thin-shell" rod bearings were "problamatical" either.

Oh - by the way, the only reason those pre war shells were thinner, is they thought that was the way to avoid re-engineering the con.rods, and get better heat transfer.

It appears the car in the photograph has been "dead" for many many years.

To advise this fellow competently, we would need rough estimates as to what it would cost Just for the parts and specialized services - not "labor"; some of you guys call that a "labor of love") to make this Packard serviceable.

Then compare the cost of bringing back a "dead" Packard, compared to the cost of simply buying one that has been maintained properly in serviceable condition.

My "hunch" is you could buy at least ONE, possibly TWO similar Packards in serviceable condition for what it would cost to revive the thing in the photograph. Chances are you could buy a "bath-tub" CUSTOM (the one with the "big" engine that is such a spectacular performer) for MUCH less than that dead thing would cost, brought back to decent condition.

For example, a cost of a respectable "factory type" full re-upholstery of a "junior motor" powered Packard, coupled with re-chroming and an engine overhaul, could be as much or more than buying a nice well maintained Custom.

But again, hard to give advice to someone who has their own priorities. My recommendation, if you just like to fix things for the fun of fixing them (as distinguished from the REAL joy of experiencing driving a Packard automobile) is DONT BUY THE PACKARD.

The logic is simple - if your primary motivation is you just like to fix things, get a later model Ford, Chevrolet, or Plymouth, for which parts are readily avail. , both from auto parts stores, and, in the case of sheet metal, in junk yards. Some of you mention "the journey, not the destination" as the value in fixing old cars. That's fine. That is, again, IF you do NOT know what the alternative is = driving a Packard !

This a matter of personal desires. The big problem here is that a lot of people who THINK they will get satisfaction just out of fixing things, have no experience with actually DRIVING a properly maintained Packard. Those of you who do own and operate PROPERLY MAINTAINED Packards know EXACTLY what I am talking about.

What I am talking about, is the fact that there is a REASON why Packard became a legend. Its products really were that marvelous.

Out of economic necessity I have always worked on my own vehicles. Cars, trucks, boats, airplanes. In the case of my own Packard - didn't have the money to take my own advice! Had to over-haul my Twelve when I bought it -(bad rings!) 30 years later had to over-haul it again (drove the #$$#!* out of it; all cars need servicing eventually !)

So I know about the satisfaction of doing a repair right. It is satisfying whether I am working on my Ford, my Toyota, or the Chevrolet motor in my boat, or the Lycoming in my airplane.

But I say again - THERE IS NOTHING -NOTHING LIKE THE SATISFACTION OF DRIVING A PACKARD ! THAT is what generated the Packard legend. It is REAL !

So for that reason, coming from one who knows, THAT is why I suggest you buy a serviceable Packard ! They are WORTH IT !

Let me add my compliments to Clipper for correcting my ommision. Of course our British & Canadian brothers also "serviced" the German auto industry by both air and ground during the 2nd World War, along with we Americans. I again apologize for my failure to give our Canadian and British brothers credit for their contribution in blood, steel, and ingenuity.

(I just came back from a trip to the Muskoka area; each timeI go to Canada, I come back more impressed with the charm and hospitality of Canada! Sorry, Clipper, as much as I wanted to stop by and get a ride in your '47 "356", couldn't come that far out of my way - if you ever get down to the "colonies", by all means come visit here!).

And as you fellows point out, there is no comparison between what happened to BMW in the years following World War II and Packard. I apologize for that too.

As we are supposed to know (or risk getting kicked out of this forum), in the years following World War II, Packard dedicated itself to ever-improving build-quality, performance, and reliability. BMW, on the other hand, down thru the years after it got going again, clogged American car lots with un-wanted cars that could not be sold. That is why today there are Packard dealerships in the expensive neighborhoods of America, and hundreds of thousands of beautiful Packards in the drive-ways of the wealthy in our country, and BMW has been out of business for so many years.

Now, about that question I had - didn't see anyone answering - about the Chrysler Club.

Has anyone checked with the Chrysler Club people to see how many of them have installed Ultramatic transmissions in their Chrysler products to improve reliability and performance ?

Fair is fair. Since one of the Packard clubs has for years offered a kit by which you can install the three speed Chrysler tranny in place of the Ultramatic, wouldn't it be fair and sportsmanlike for Chrysler Club people to offer a kit to install that superb Ultramatic in Chrysler Corp. cars?

Someone should look into this. I mean..fair is fair !

Has anyone checked with the CHRYSLER clubs to see if they advertise a "kit" to remove those horrible Chrysler three speed automatics from Chrysler Corp. cars, and substitute in its place that wonderful Ultramatic ?

Some of you guys may not be aware that in mid '54, Packard modified the Ultramatic, so that you could get the advantage of the reduction gear start, without manually moving the column shift lever. This was certainly a BIG performance improvement over the "1st series' Ultramatic(1950-mid '54).

Unfortunately, they werent able to make it durable. The horriblly high failure rate of these cars in the hands of consumers is what drove buyers away. In the mean-time, by the mid 1950's Chrysler and Ford had come out with multi-speed automatic transmissions that WERE durable.

I note one of you typing "IMH0 Packard never made a bad car". That is wonderful that you feel so passionate about the later Packards!

The problem is, no matter how much you bestow love on a Packard today, it does NOT seem to have any effect on real world history. Perhaps if you guys went to Detroit, and stood in front of what is left of the Packard production facilities, and yelled at the top of your lungs what a bad guy I am for discussing real-world technical history, that could change things, the lights would come back on, the machinery would start humming, and I could go down to the old Packard dealership and order a new one!

All right..all right..I admit it. I made up those exciting sales figures in late '54 first month or so of '55, and then their stunning decline when the public found out, just to annoy you guys.

Here's the real story. Bout time I started telling the truth.

People were so impressed with the reliability & build quality of the '55 Packards that they bought so many the factory couldn't keep up with production, and went out of business because it was bored taking all those new orders for '56 Packard products.

As a side-note, the fellow who sees no connection between what happened to German auto plants during World War II, & THEIR post-war problems, compared with Packard, is correct.

Packard came out of the war with half its production staff dead, no access to suppliers, had to go around scrap yards and cut up wrecked tanks for metal, but dedicated itself to build ever better quality cars, better performing cars. But Mercedes and BMW, thanks to the Eight Air Force, had nice production facilities, lots of eager, well-fed and well-dressed labor, who were determined to destroy their famous pre-war reputation by building lousy cars.

That is why Mercedes and BMW cars fell apart all over the streets of America causing people to reject them. But even tho they had no orders for more and more cars, they kept making more of those junkers. It got so bad, that President Eisenhower sponsored our Interstate Highway program in 1956. He had to - now we know the reason why we have an Interstate Highway system - we had to bypass all those American highways clogged with those falling-apart Mercedes automobiles.

Proof of why Packard had to close its doors can be seen by comparing a 1950-54 Packard Custom/ 400 Patcian with a 1950 -'54 Cadillac 60 Special. The sluggish, badly built Cadillacs were rejected by the buying public, whereas those wonderful Packards with their incredible performance & superb "build quality" caused the public to demand more and more of them.

But Packard taught the buying public a lesson. Promised them in its advertising for the introduction of the '55 model year, that "PACKARD IS BACK".

Thinking back, there are so many little examples of the superiority of Packards in those last years - I especially love that neato front U-joint Packard put in there, so much better than those crummy "real" U-joints GM had. Packard owners HUNGERED, just couldn't wait for that roughness & vibration you could get out of the "slider" type U joint, which you just couldn't get out of those crummy "real" U joints in the Cadillac.

And the way those crummy Hydramatics LURCHED when acceleratiing. Tore people's heads clean off. "Put your foot in it" in a '50's Cadillac at ANY speed, and you'd be bothered by brutal accelleration. Thank heaven for Packard engineering rapid accelleration out of their cars. That sure helped increase sales !

There's another reason why people rejected GM cars, and ordered so many new Packards. I can tell you personally how proud I was, still sitting there in front of a bunch of people, while the Cadillac I was drag-racing was long gone. Nobody paid attention to that Cadillac! I was SOO proud to have all that attention !

So, there you are "IMHO Packard never built a bad car". Now the truth can be told - It was all those new orders for more of those great '50s Packards that caused Packard to close down.