I have seen this problem on other old cars. The ignition switch did not work reliably because it was getting worn.

The solution was to add a Ford starter relay, wiring the original ignition switch to actuate the relay.

This relieved the load on the old switch and allowed it to function normally and no doubt, extended its life considerably.

I don't know if this applies to Packards, but it might be something to consider.

Packard 12 fan has a point, Packard bodies were made by Briggs.

Besides it was high time for them to drop the senior models and move on.

Lincoln had already phased out their senior models in favor of a mass produced model based on the cheap Zephyr.Chrysler had been emphasizing the mass produced models since bringing out the Airflow as their senior model. Cadillac dropped their slow selling V16 about the same time and likewise, concentrated on their mass produced V8s with factory bodies.

Pierce Arrow, Stutz, and Marmon were long gone.

The new 1942 "Clipper" had a high style body somewhat larger than the old 110 and 120, and became the basis for a new mass produced senior straight eight.

This was in line with the overall trend of the industry.

Everything I know about the sizes comes from the Edelbrock web site I referenced above. Here is a copy:

THUNDER SERIES AVS? CARBURETOR
The next step up from our Performer Series Carburetors is our Thunder Series AVS? which was designed and calibrated to deliver optimum street performance in hundreds of applications. Primary and secondary booster clusters offer the most accurate and up-to-date calibration available for today's fuels and octane levels. The Thunder Series' unique Qwik-Tune Secondary Air Valve allows for limitless calibration of the secondary circuit with simple hand tools while on your vehicle. It can be easily adjusted - in seconds - to suit your application... no extra parts required to achieve optimum performance. They are available with either manual or electric choke in sizes of 500, 600, and 800 cfm (cubic feet per minute) for optimum performance for small-block or big-block V8s. Click here now for Thunder Series carburetor applications

Also, no knock on Edelbrock - any carb can have problems. I've probably rebuilt fifty AFBs and Edelbrocks. Some of them had been used, abused, left out in the rain until they were unsalvagable junk. One rare AFB from the R2 Studebaker took $450 in parts and labor by the time I got it back in shape.

thnx, jack vines

Petey; How have you been? Still living in Kingman AZ?

You should remember me from the AACA forum.

John F. Shireman

Next time you talk to Roger, tell him "Peter" says HI...!

By the way, ask Roger if he knew that Charlie Last worked for Noll when he came back from the Navy after the War (that is where Charlie originally got his Packard Twelve training...!)

Hi Dave !

At least I think your name is Dave. Refresh my memory; dont you have a "356" ( Clipper Super ) and live in Ontario ?

Are you anywhere near Killarney (a resort town on the north shore of Lake Huron ? We have a Lake (amphib. aircraft owner's convention) there on the weekend of Sept. 6-7). Love to see your Clipper - as we discussed, we had a Clipper Super for many years.

Yes, I am a member of the CCCA, along with many other old car buff organizations. No, I dont wear those silly pants or hats !

Which reminds me, did you ever see my post (before I got kicked off of the AACA site) explaining to you that if you are getting an average of 15 mpg that is just fine for your engine ?

In the post that got me kicked off the AACA site, I explained that the "22 mpg" you heard, probably came from old MOBIL OIL COMPANY "Mobilgas Economy Run" info. In that post, I explained that, yes, a '47 Packard DID get 22 mpg, but you shouldnt feel bad, as that was either a six or a small eight, much lighter and less powerful cars.

The fact that "big" engined Packards are MUCH faster and more powerful then the "junior" cars... seems to get some people all upset. They think we are some kind of snobs. Nothing could be further than the truth, which is simply Packard gave a good car for the money in ALL the price classes it competed in. I cant imagine why a guy with a "junior" Packard would feel offended if Packard ALSO gave good value for the money in the much higher price classes it also competed in !

Dont forget to let me know how far you are from Killarney!

P F H

Welcome to the forum Peter. What took you so long? By any chance you don't wear a CCCA ball cap and golf pants do you?

New visitor - can't help but marvel at how informative and valuable this forum is ! Some great stuff in here.

I did spot one MINOR error in some out-of-the way info. that might be of interest to my fellow Packard V-12 fans.

In the section discussing "general information" about the 1938 Senior Series, your info. claims "THE TWELVE SHARED THE SAME CHANGES AS THE SUPER EIGHT, IT ALSO USED THE SAME CHASSIS".

I suspect I know where this nonsence came from. In the late Bev. Kimes excellent book, one of her sources made the same goofy statement.

The fact is, under the sheet metal, the Packard Twelve was a MUCH heavier, more robust car, and EVERYTHING on the chassis frame, under-carriage parts, including, but not limited to springs, suspension components, wheels, brakes, king-pins, steering gear, steering knuckles, etc. reflected the heavier-duty requirements. NONE of them will interchange.

This does NOT make ANY Packard any "lesser" a car that the Twelve. Be ASSURED Packard DESERVED its reputation for providing the best possible value in any given price class. But to compare or try and confuse a Packard product from one price class to another of a MUCH more expenisve price class, is simply silly.

My first thought when I read this post was that the starter switch was defective. Simply bypassing the switch by joining the two wires should resolve that. I am wondering if the ignition switch itself may have a poor power connection. The switch is a bit hard to reach it is possible especially if the bezel is removed and the switch pushed back. Of course it may be a poor contact in the switch. Best to just start seeing if all wires and contacts are solid and work from there.

durn..think I deleted my own post by accident...!

Anyway, a few comments about the "ZIS made from Packard dies" legend.

To understand the basis for the legend, you have to understand the political climate of that era. If you were a hater of President Roosevelt, it made a nice story that mean ole President Roosevelt ruined the Packard Company by taking away their dies, so they couldn't compete in the big car market after World War Two.

Of course it is utter nonsence - first of all, Packard didn't have any dies to give, even if it wanted to. With the destruction of the old "Senior Division" facilities, Packard became pretty much an ASSEMBLER. Frames came from AO Smith. Bodies from Briggs. Interior fittings from one of the several Detroit area suppliers of pot metal trim pieces. Wheels, from Motor Rim And Wheel. Same situation for carbs., electrical systems, etc. We know the basic engine castings of the engine line Packard had before, stayed at the Packard plant, as these were used for post-war Packard production.

I would not be surprised if the STALIN MOTOR WORKS ( that is what ZIS roughly translates into) had agents here who bought some parts from the same suppliers Packard used, and if so, would explain how SOME small parts on the ZIS actually are the same as parts Packards used.

For those of you who are intersted in the phenomena of "back engineering", there is an intersting story floating around the "net" about how the Russians "back-engineered" a seized American B-29 aircraft. My understanding is they even copied a battle-damage patch, not knowing what it was for !