OMG they look mint in the pics. I think there will be some unhappy online high bidders. Even the '78 Toronado looks way better in the pics than it actually was. And the '51 Packard was nowhere near as good as it looks in the pics. I'm glad I went in person and saw what they really looked like. Although some of the non-Packards were nice.

Tried the link, but it doesn't work. The 1955 with velour that sat there for years at $18,500 was a Patrician, not a 400. So as a Patrician, I thought it was even more overpriced. If you remember that car, it was in much better shape than the Benoy Packards. Some of them supposedly had 40,000 miles or so on them, but I would not have guessed that. Looked more like 140,000. We were told that the Benoy Packards were basket cases by other Packard members that had seen them before. I would not say that they were basket cases, but all of them definitely needed work. I do not know where or how they were stored, but they definitely needed a lot more than just freshening up. All had varying degrees of rust, needed some if not lots of interior work, and of course who knows how and if any of them ran. Bidder #2000 is the guy that bought most of them I believe including the 1946 limo. I was quite surprised at the price some of the cars sold for, including the 1951, and some of the non-Packards. If you wanted a long term project, one of the 4 door Clippers might not have been a bad deal. But I was not interested in a long term project or 4 door, so I didn't check those out as much as the 2 doors.

I was at the auction in person hoping to buy a Packard. I wanted a 2 door and there were only 2. A 1956 400 which quickly went out of my price range at $10,800, and a 1956 Clipper Super which did not run at $3,000. Most of the cars were not too bad, but I'm sure nowhere near as good as they looked in pictures. If the exterior was not bad, the interior was not good. Better interior, worse exterior. Only one 1956 Patrician had an excellent original interior that it looked like nothing would need to be done. Exterior was no so good. While they started some of the other cars, absolutely none of the Packards were started, not even ones that were supposedly driveable. I was not comfortable bidding higher than $10,000 for a car that they would not even start. Plus while the 400 was decent, it still needed some bodywork, interior work, new parts, and rechroming, assuming it was actually driveable. The 400 and a 1955 Patrician (with unoriginal velour interior that sat on that lot for years) ended up in a bid war between the same 2 guys, and both went for too much in my opinion. Some of the 4 door Packards went for lower prices, and most were bought by the same guy (a phone bidder I think). Some of those might have been the only deals. I was wondering if they would show up later on Ebay. The 1948 Limo was in much better shape than the 1946, so I was surprised that the '46 sold for more. I guess people just don't like the bathtubs. The 1953 limo was an absolute basket case, although it supposedly had a rebuilt engine that also was not started. I also looked at a 77 or 78 Toronado XS with moonroof. It needed work and leaked so bad that my pants got soaked from just sitting in it. It went for over $2,000.

The Town Car, Crown Vic and Grand Marquis are supposed to be gone by 2011. Kind of stupid in my opinion. They are handing over the Limo business (which Lincoln has about 85% of now) to Cadillac on a silver platter. As well as all the police and taxi sales to Chevy and Dodge. While the limo biz might not be a big deal as far as sales figures, I think losing that prestige market is not a good idea. Same with police and taxi. Having that market allows them to keep building the nearly identical Marquis for the people that still want that type of car. I think they should have just facelifted them. The main complaint I hear about the Town Car is not that it is an old man car, but that it is too much like a Marquis, and not enough like the previous Lincolns.

For one year, the Taurus was renamed the 500, as Ford was experimenting with having all Ford cars begin with "F", suv's with "E", and Mercurys with "M". Interesting idea, but the Taurus and Sable names were reinstated the next year because those cars had a loyal following that the renamed 500 wasn't accomplishing. That was a couple of years ago already. A new redesigned Taurus is now out though.

If the Plymouth Plainsman had the Predictor rear window in 1956, well so did the Predictor, and going the correct direction with the retracting rear window. Also the Packard Balboa had that rear window in 1953. So I don't see how it could be copied from Plymouth the same year the Predictor was out.

Also the 1958 Lincolns were supposed to be based on the Lincoln LaTosca concept car, however, if you look at a 1958 Lincoln, you can see influences from both the LaTosca and the Predictor in it. While the basic design for the 1958 Lincoln would have been well underway by the time any Packard employees got there, there still would have been time for adding touches like the Predictor roof and other cues here and there.

And while Packard may have dropped their six cylinder, Cadillac never even had one in the 1930's or 40's, and even LaSalle didn't either. And Packard did not have a V-8 when that was a very important buzzword in the late 1940's and early 1950's. Especially since you could even get one in a low price Ford.

And again, while Chrysler had unit body construction for Plymouth, Dodge, and Chrysler, Imperial remained body on frame from 1957-1966. They specifically insisted on body on frame for the Imperial to provide more structural integrity and a better ride for their premium car.

I think Packard did cheapen their image by offering lower priced cars. In the 1930's with the depression, everyone either had to offer cheaper models or risk going out of business. The difference is, Packard kept offering cheaper models after WWII when they were no longer needed. Every automaker could sell whatever they built after so many years with no new cars. Plus, Packard dropped all of its senior models and based everything on the Clipper. So from 1946 on, there was very little to visually distinguish more expensive senior models from the cheaper ones. So why would you want to pay $4000 for a car that didn't look much different than a $2000 one?

Imperial was a seperate division in 1955.

Elwood Engle (not Sherwood) designed the 1961 Lincoln Continental and 1964 Imperial.

The 1961 Lincoln did not massively outsell the 1958-60. All sold around 25,000 - 30,000 per year. Imperial's sales were about even with Lincoln in the late 1950's - 1960's. Lincoln sales did not begin to pick up until 1965. The Mark series would outsell Cadillac's Eldorado from 1969-79, but the Deville/Fleetwood always outsold the Continental.

Imperials were body on frame unlike other Chrysler products of the time. In fact Imperials from 1957-1966 are the most sought after cars for demolition derbies. So much so, that they are outlawed in most derbies. They are not outlawed from or wanted for demo derbies because of poor body quality.

If Buick was Packard's main competition in the 1950's, that means that the buyers of more expensive Packards left for Cadillac even before 1957. Hence the continual increase in Cadillac sales postwar. No one came close to Cadillac's sales in the late 1950's to 1960's, so even if a few people bought a Buick or Chrysler because they thought Cadillac was too flashy, it certainly didn't hurt Cadillac's sales.

One thing that really does irritate me about Lincoln is that it says "Ford" all over it. Ford on the valve covers and other assorted places under the hood, on the radio, on the door sills, even the demostrator tape that came with the car says "Ford". On a Cadillac, everything says "Cadillac" or at least "body by Fisher", which sounds more impressive than "Ford". I think that is more irritating than sharing an engine with a Ford pick up.

Packard sales exceeded Cadillac's in the 1930's. By 1950, Cadillac and Packard sales were about even. By 1956, Cadillac sales far exceeded Packard's. After 1956, neither Imperial or Lincoln's (pre-1970's) sales ever came close to Cadillac's. So while some former loyal Packard buyers might have switched to Lincoln, Imperial, or maybe even a high end Buick, it appears that Cadillac got the majority of them.

No. As far as Chrysler being more conservative compared to Cadillac, have you seen a 1961 Imperial next to a 1961 Cadillac? 1959 was Cadillac's flashiest year, and the 1959 Imperial was not much more tame. Imperials generally sold to people that specifically liked Chrysler and wanted their best offering. A book I have on Packard said that a lot of Packard employees went to Lincoln after Packard shut down in Detroit. If you look at a 1958-60 Lincoln, you see a lot of Predictor in it, especially the rear window. The 1961-69 went its own direction via T-bird. But I can easily see the 1970's Continental and Mark series easily being what the Patrician and Caribbean would look like if they made it into the 1970's. Just need to put the ox-yolk on top the Parthenon grill.

Any listing of cruise nights, car shows, etc. are always listed by date and location. So it just seemed to make sense to do it the same way here. I belong to a forum for my sick pet and add daily to a list for her. I just go into the topic and edit it every day showing her daily progress. So if that could be done with a sticky so that people can just add new shows listing just date, place, and name as they are known, that would be a lot better than searching through all the posts to see if something is coming up. The only thing I don't know is if it is not possible for anyone other than the person that made the sticky to edit it. I suppose people could just reply to the sticky and then the person that created the sticky could add them to the list and delete the seperate reply. Since I do not actually own a Packard, I am not on here that often. But I suppose I could do it since there shouldn't be that many shows going on that it would require monitering all that often.