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Re: Packard TSB 56T-20 - Low Oil Pressure
#31
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Bowman Davis
I'll try the extra quart of oil first. I also did an oil change, although the oil looked good as new and went to Rotella 15/40 after I first heard the lifter clatter or whatever it was. It quietened it down some but, I don't know if it was because it liked the Rotella better or if the oil had thinned out too much, even though it looked good and there was no debris in the old oil when I drained it.And the filter looked good as new and there was no dirt or anything (metal shavings, etc) in the hole at the top of the drain plug. But, I will pull the pan and see what, if anything is in there.

PackardV8, I missed your one note regarding the pan.

I doubt it has ever been pulled but, no way of knowing for sure. I know of no reason unless the other owner had engine problems which I doubt, because there is no indication the head heads or head bolts were removed, the paint is still good and no wrench marks anywhere, unless the mechanic doing the work was the most conscientious one to ever pick up a tool.

Posted on: 2009/10/28 22:28
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Re: Packard TSB 56T-20 - Low Oil Pressure
#32
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Bowman Davis
PackardV8, What you write about the sending unit makes sense but I thought the return was at the end of the head where the oil sender is located and the pumped oil came up into the front of the head. But the reroute seems like a pretty good idea and it really doesn't look as though that would be difficult to do.
But wouldn't adding another quart of oil to the sump pan make it more likely to have air in the oil or create too much splashing effect.

Posted on: 2009/10/28 21:54
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Re: Packard TSB 56T-20 - Low Oil Pressure
#33
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Bowman Davis
Packard V8, Many thanks for that info. I will do that as soon as I get my distributor problems corrected.
Now that I have my feet wet, another question comes to mind, that is, if there is a design or application problem with the pump or the actual oil flow in the engine(or possibly both) causing air bubbles in the oil flow in the block and the heads (especially the left bank)shouldn't that make main bearings #2 and #4 more prone to failure since they receive their lubricate from the left bank than #1,#3 & #5, and is there any evidence that is the case?
Another question, has there been any evidence in the failed engines of the oil return passsage at the rear of the left head being plugged or partially obstructed with debris. I would think that would create pump problems and early failure(I believe it is driven off the left side of the engine)as well as noises in the valve train and lower end as well. Or maybe the return is not of sufficient size? Just thinking outloud.

Posted on: 2009/10/28 21:20
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Re: Packard TSB 56T-20 - Low Oil Pressure
#34
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Bowman Davis
Well, now I'm beginning to think that maybe I too have a oil pump or related problem,besides the timing issue. How can I diagnose the problem of having air in the oil. Before pulling the pump I would want to have pretty good evidence of a problem. Also knowing what or at least one of the problems is would allow for a better remedy, rather than changing out the pump and still have oiling related issues.I have run the engine at different engine speeds up to normal temprature, shut it down and checked the oil inside the filter housing and I did not detect any air bubbles or see anything out of the ordinary. Does the get entrapped in the oil or is there air that is trapped in the heads that can detected by breaking one of the lines at the filter or at the 1/8" openings in both heads.

Posted on: 2009/10/28 20:01
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Re: Packard TSB 56T-20 - Low Oil Pressure
#35
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Bowman Davis
My 56 Pat has 41,000 (supposedly actual) miles on it so based on what I have been reading, I can expect it to disentegrate or require a major engine rebuild anyday now.
I'm sure it has some,most, or all of the factory mods talked about here, because it was built late in the 56 model year, but I don't know that for a fact because I haven't removed the oil pan,yet, but I intend to, just out of curiosity. My engine was quiet with no lifter noise at startup or after reaching normal temp. after setting for days,weeks and even months, until I had a timing issue recently, then I got lifter clatter some pinging, banging,etc, but only in the left bank, oil pressure was a steady 40# and oil pressure was good in both heads also. So I'm attributing all of the noise to timing issues and not oiling issues, at least for now.
Is there not such a thing as having too much oil pressure as well as not enough.

Posted on: 2009/10/28 18:52
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Re: Vacuum Advance unit
#36
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Bowman Davis
Ross, Thanks for info. I was thinking pretty much what you just said and have been checking the web on the forums for 1950-ish Gm and Stude threads on distributors and timing issues to try and get a delco part number or alternate vendor but, nothing yet. I have also tried all the locals such as NAPA, Autozone, advance and carquest but even if the part is available the slugs working there couldn't find the part. If you don't have the exact part number it is pretty much useless to go there. But, I still go and try it anyway. I have also tried the Delco site but no luck. I will find one or alternative and when I do I'll pass it on in this forum.
THNX Again,

Posted on: 2009/10/26 21:36
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Re: Vacuum Advance unit
#37
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Bowman Davis
Jack Vines, The Distributor is OEM Packard per STB 56T-14, when they went to the Delco p/n 6489847 (Delco 1110880) to correct a reported problem of detonation due to poor quality of gasoline being suppplied at that time. The vacuum unit is also OEM. But one thing I noticed when I pulled it out of the engine, there was no gasket on the shaft or hole in the block. The manual idicates there should be gasket there, which means the distributor was removed previuosly for some reason.
I did test the distributor on the car using engine vac, timing light and dwell/tach meter. The cap, point set were all in great shape, although the gap was too wide @.019, rather than .016.
At 500 RPM (the lowest the engine would idle) the dwell was 26 degress with the timing set @ 10 degrees BTDC, (spec requires 26 to 33 degrees), I also checked the centrifigal advance and it worked when engine speed was increased. I did not do extensive testing and did not record any of the readings because I had decided to pull the distributor but first I wanted to know if everything was working. I also checked the ignition coil, plug wires, plugs, engine vacuum and compression. All tested okay and within specs.
I also made a trip to NAPA and was told theyy do not have a Delco vacuum unit and have no way to cross reference the Packard or Delco p/n's to another vendor for a replacement.

Posted on: 2009/10/26 18:35
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Re: Vacuum Advance unit
#38
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Bowman Davis
JW, Thanks for the quick input.
My intent was to remove the breaker plate and the centrifigal advance and clean everything, spray paint the outside housing, reassemble using new point set, condenser,rotor and cap, but to me the instructions in the manual seemed to be short on the how to information. I got to the task of removing the breaker plate but, when it mentioned a spring at the side of the plate (which I suppose is under the plate) I chickened out, fear of breaking something. I'll get my nerve back and procede but what is so critical about removing the breaker plate, looks like just one spring screw holds it in?

Jack Vines,
There are no Pro shops around here to do that type of work. And I have had some very bad pro mechanics work on some of my cars and motorcycles in the past years. In 1977 I had a very respected speed shop that did a lot of engine builds for the old nascar drivers rework the heads,change the cam and exhaust, to improve the torque of the 390 V8 I used for towing my trailer. The engine blew up within 100 miles. I have had lots of similar experiences with lots of other mechanical work. So if I can figure out how to do it and do it right, I'd rather spend the time and money doing it myself. Besides it is even harder to find a decent mechanic today than it was in 1976. Today most of them don't know and don't care.

Posted on: 2009/10/26 11:54
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Vacuum Advance unit
#39
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Bowman Davis
I finally got around to it and pulled my distributor out of the 56 Pat. The vacuum unit works and advances the breaker per the specs in the manual, but, it does not hold the vacuum and begins to leak down right away. Are the delco remy units still available and if so where. My local NAPA guy says he has one that should work but is not a DR unit.
#2 Is there a way to test the centifigal advance off the car without the distributor testing machine. I know the centrifigal advance works but I don't know if it's working per specs in the manual.

#3 ? What is best choice to lubricate the breaker plate. I read on another site that a siicone base is best, but,I have noticed that silicone based lubricants tend to become sticky and seem to lose it's slippery properties after not too long a period, which seems to rule it out for such use.

Posted on: 2009/10/26 10:00
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Re: 56 Pat Spark Plugs/points
#40
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Bowman Davis
BigKev, Thanks FTI. Sad but true,it is a bit harder to select the right replacement plugs since they have changed the way to identify the characteristics of not only plugs but many other items.

Posted on: 2009/10/24 11:16
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