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Board index » All Posts (DavidPackard)




Re: spark plug wires 2nd try
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DavidPackard
Thanks to all about the spark plug wire material and terminals.

I downloaded the EC training manual that Howard mentioned, and promptly fell-in head first. Currently I think my EC system is complete, however I disconnected the power to the unit when I first bought the car, just in-case. It is clear from the picture in the manual that the rear cylinder spark plug terminals are straight.

I'll proceed with the plug wires and let the EC be a future project.

Thanks again, dp

Posted on: 2016/2/10 12:17
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spark plug wires 2nd try
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DavidPackard
I have a few questions about spark plug wires for a '48 Deluxe Eight. This car is equipped with an 'Electromatic' clutch system.
1.) Are straight un-insulated terminals used on all eight plug wires, or does the 'E' clutch system equipped cars require angled terminals on the rear three cylinders?
2.) Is black cotton covered wire correct, and if so is the finish dull, or does it have a luster?

Thanks dp

Posted on: 2016/2/10 11:03
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Re: Battery Cable Question
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DavidPackard
Count me in the double aught club. I use welding cable to retain some degree of flexibility, and use solder type cast ends that are not crimped. Although I'm not known to drag my battery cables across the garage floor, these cables also feature an abrasion resistant insulation covering that might be of some benefit if the cable touches the chassis. I have not found a source for the flat ground strap in a size anywhere near 2/0, so I use 'round' wire for both cables.
dp

Posted on: 2016/2/7 14:21
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Spark Plug Wires
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DavidPackard
I'm about to restore the spark plug wires on my '48 Deluxe Eight (221/2262), back to the way they should have been when new. I do need a bit of help from the experienced members of the forum.
My questions are;
Are non-insulated straight connector ignition leads correct for the last three cylinders of an electromatic equipped engine?
Is there a preferred routing of the ignition leads through the cable support block for an AutoLite equipped vehicle?
Here's some background information and research with regard to these two questions.
My research to date would indicate that the correct configuration would be cloth covered, black in color, high tension leads, with straight un-insulated connectors at the plug. However . . .
I was looking at plate number 60 - Clutch "Electromatic" - 22 Series (my car is so equipped), and it is quite clear that the forward cylinder ignition leads have straight connectors. It is equally clear that the leads for the rear cylinders are routed under the vacuum line from the intake manifold to the electromatic control unit. If I had to guess I would say that plate 60 depicts that the rear three cylinders are either equipped with right angle connectors, or those three wires had much less of a 'loop' as the wire approaches the plug.
Plate number 84 Engine "Left Side" is for a non-electromatic equipped car. This plate depicts straight connectors on the rear three ignitions leads and the 'loop' in the wire is quite restricted ( I wouldn't have installed a wire with that tight of radius).
Plate number 85 Engine "Right Side" is for a non-electromatic equipped car. This plate depicts straight connectors on the rear three ignition leads. The 'loop' in the wire is far less restrictive than shown in the previous plate.
Plate number 86 Engine "Right Side" is for a non-electromatic equipped car. This plate depicts straight connectors on the rear three ignition leads. The 'loop' in the wire is more generous than shown in plate 84, but to my eye the 'loop' appears less than shown in plate 85.
Plate 87 shows the left side of a 24/25 series engine ( an electromatic clutch was no longer available ), again the rear plug wires have straight connectors with a generous loop in the cable.
From section 4 of the parts catalog, part number 394497 (that's the ignition cable set) appears to apply to all of the engines depicted in the plates. There does not appear to be a separate ignition wire set for electromatic equipped vehicles. Equally, part number 317540 ( that's the plug terminal) appears to be use in all series 22 applications. I have no information on whether this terminal was intended to be 'bent to fit', and could be either straight or angled. From all of the plates I would conclude that the terminals are straight and are not 'field' bent.
From the information I have looked at I have drawn the conclusion I should not be fixated on the amount of 'loop' shown in the plates. It would appear that this was not necessarily a controlled characteristic. There is the possibility that for electromatic equipped cars the loop was minimized to keep the leads from touching the vacuum line.
The second question concerns the routing of the wires through the rubber block held in the coil mounting bracket. On my '48 the rear wires are routed through the four holes closest to the head, with the forward wires in the upper four holes. On my '54 the rear wires are routed through the rear holes (two low, two high), with the forward wires routed in a similar way. Both of these configurations result in a lot of wire crossing between the distributor and mounting block, but 'neat' wire routing from the block to the plug. My '48 is equipped with an AutoLite distributor and I was thinking that the wires should be routed as to minimize the amount of crossing and run the leads as straight as possible from the distributor cap to the wire block. By straight I don't mean Banjo string tight, I'm thinking to minimize the torque required to rotate the distributor, since the vacuum advance/retard rotates the entire distributor.
Plate 87 suggests that 'neatness' of the wires between the block and distributor may have been a consideration. This plate depicts an AutoLite equipped engine, and I do see one or two wires that cross, but in general it isn't like a complete jumble of wires. I believe if the oil pump has been installed such that number one distributor tower is essentially at 07:00 then there is a routing that has no wires crossing between the distributor and block. Unfortunately all of the plates are with the coil installed, which pretty much blocks the view of the block and the wire routing details.

Posted on: 2016/2/7 12:58
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Re: One Wire 6 volt positive ground alternator
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DavidPackard
The generator/alternator fits the lower attachment bracket (that's the one that bolts to the engine block) quite well. No fore/aft shimming was required to achieve proper belt alignment. The upper generator adjusting strap (PN 395585) needed a spacer. In the photo you can see the required thickness of spacer. Your '54 Patrician is likely equipped with a Delco electrical system, so the PowerMaster long case 'Delco' unit should be a direct replacement as far as bracketry is concerned. Dimensional information for all of the product line is available at the Quality Power or PowerMaster web sites. I believe all of the GM generator adjusting straps had a slight offset, and all of the Packard units were flat, so I suspect you will either need to come-up with a spacer (preferred), or bend the Packard part (not so much). I did try to bury the spacer at the engine end of the strap but on the '48 I was fighting a space issue and couldn't get the longer bolt into place. I tried but failed on that one, perhaps the '54 has a bit more room with the different motor mounts.
The 'up' side of these generator 'look alike' units is the optics, that is, you need to get real close before you can tell that it is not a stock generator. The 'down' sides are both cost and loss of the 'GEN' idiot light, which was not an issue on the '48 (ammeter not light). If you really want to retain the 'light' then installing a Delco 10SI with a 3-wire hook-up is the way to go, but you will lose the optic battle in a big way. I have had good success with a 1 ampere current flow to excite a 10SI alternator (lowers the cut-in speed).
On all of my 'older hobby' cars I use a voltmeter to let me know if all is well with the charging system. On the cars so equipped I've wired-up a digital voltmeter that plugs into the cigarette lighter, which is easily removed when the car is 'on display'. I currently use the small digital meters available on the internet for about $2 each (plus the cost of a plug). Just watch your P&Qs on the polarity. These units will work with a voltage input of 5 - 30 volts, so they work quite well on our 6 volt systems. I did have to clean the center contact of my lighter socket before it would work correctly.
If you go with the PowerMaster and you want to get even closer to the look of an original generator then you will need to add a Delco ID tag (available on the internet), 'dummy' field pole attachment stud, and a threaded hole for the condenser (if so equipped on your car). If you look at the photo posted earlier, the alternator is completely mounted in the forward end of the case (away from the wire connections). The aft portion of the case is nothing more than an aluminum spacer cylinder. It is this aft cylinder that is the difference between the 'long case' and 'short case' Delco units. The aft case is sandwiched between the alternator and the end cap. Two screws hold the whole mess together. If you feel up to it, the end cap comes off by removing the two screws (bolts), and watch your step here, there's a buss bar attached to the actual output of the alternator to the external post. You will need to keep the spacer cylinder quite close to the alternator while you remove the end cap. You then remove the electrical buss bar and remove the spacer cylinder. Once 'in-hand' you can modify the spacer as you see fit. Remember all of the 'dummy' electrical connections do not need to be insulated . . . . UNLESS you intend on hooking up the original field wire at both the generator and regulator ends. I did not try to add fore and aft oil cups, or change the Allen screw that holds the alternator 'guts' into the forward outer case, but I suspect that would not be difficult.
This is a single wire electrical hook-up alternator. A wire is run from the alternator output to the 'battery' side of the voltage regulator. An alternate hook-up would be to leave the regulator alone and connect the alternator output to the battery or the battery side of the starter solenoid. Insulate the original 'armature' and 'field' wires at the generator end. I left all of the wires connected to the '48 voltage regulator, ran a wire (red in the photo) from the alternator to the 'BAT' side of the regulator, and included a short 'dummy' field wire (light gray with single black tracer). All of the leads at the generator side of the original harness were insulated individually and wrapped to appear to be part of the harness that loops around the oil fill tube.
All is well so far.

Posted on: 2016/1/7 14:11
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Re: The hood locks 1948 22nd Series
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DavidPackard
Thanks Howard;
I was thinking of placing the 'J' hooks into the holes in the hood where the 'pins' go, and then figure-out the CG problem with an adjustable lifting point concept. I will be lifting the hood straight up & down. You could also do that with your cherry picker process . . . just as long as the car has wheels installed. I'll add a set of anti-rotation cords so the radio antenna doesn't get clipped when the hood is free of the car. I know a lot of 'baby bird' owners used lifting slings to remove the roof of their T-Bird.
dp

Posted on: 2015/10/6 11:22
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Re: Rear Pinion Crush Spacer
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DavidPackard
Concerning the pinion seal replacement procedure; I know the standard procedure is to pre-mark the clocking position of every component that is going to be removed, and upon seal renewal, reassemble with the goal of restoring the clocking positions, especially the nut to pinion shaft relationship. Apparently I have a long lost brother in Australia that has just introduced the idea of monitoring the axial play of the pinion and become fully awake when that axial play approaches zero. As with the standard procedure, Peter suggests a check of the torque required to rotate the pinion as a segregate for pinion bearing pre-load.
Now for the assumptions that I have made about automotive differential design. I see the crush collar as a rather unique spring that is intended to be plastically deformed during assembly, but that collar should have some amount of 'spring-back' when the load is removed. If the axial motion of the pinion is monitored during disassembly there should be some initial nut removal rotation that has no effect on the axial play of the pinion. After the collar spring-back has concluded a relationship between the nut rotation and axial play should be quite predicable by the pitch of the thread.
My '48 has a leaking pinion seal that may need replacement, however the leak is far less with the car being used regularly so I may not need to rush on that task. After reading this posting, my plan is now to use the standard procedure of marking the clocking position of everything in sight, measure the pinion torque prior to disassembly, and then try my hand at monitoring the spring back of the collar. Upon reassembly I suspect all of the stars should realign. I'll post my results if I have any new information to add to the collective experience.

Posted on: 2015/10/6 11:06
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Re: The hood locks 1948 22nd Series
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DavidPackard
On many occasions a 'helping hand' is not available to help me remove the hood. Has anyone out there built a sling and block & tackle set-up to make the hood removal a 'one old man' job? I've got a lot of winches and 'come-alongs, and a bunch of hooks in the garage ceiling that can handle several hundred pounds. I'm thinking of a process 1.) drive the car into the garage, 2.) remove the hood, 3.) back the car out, 4.) deal with storing the hood out of harm's way, 5.) pull the car back into the garage for a serious wrench spinning session. I'm thinking a couple of spreader bars and some nylon straps with 'J' hooks. Has anyone else solved the one man Packard hood removal problem?

Posted on: 2015/10/6 10:01
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Re: The hood locks 1948 22nd Series
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DavidPackard
Sheepishly I'll admit that I have driven my '48 many miles with one side of the hood not latched, but rest assured in every case it was unintentional. In the case of an alligator style hood I would think the risks are very high, but with our style of hood opening I don't see the presents of a lot of aero-force developed in the direction needed to pivot the hood. Plus, to me, without counter balance springs the required opening force seems rather high. I've driven at a speed as high as 50 mph with one side unlatch . . . curiously it seems it's always the left side (:>). Just keep the speed at a reasonable level and the hood should be just fine.
dp

Posted on: 2015/10/6 9:35
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Re: One Wire 6 volt positive ground alternator
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DavidPackard
Hello again;
As a parting shot I've included a photo of the PowerGen 'old school generator' alternator installed in my '48.
I completely agree with BigKev on the superior attributes of a three wire installation, versus the quick and dirty one wire installation of a Delco 10SI type alternator. You can dramatically change the 'cut-in' speed of a Delco 10SI by trickling an excitation current to terminal 1. I would recommend something near 1 ampere of current. That would be 6 ohms of circuit resistance if your car is 6 volt, or 12 ohms for a 12 volt system. I have many years of experience with an alternator with one ampere of excitation. That amount of current lowered the cut-in from 1100 rpm to 400 rpm on my '30 Model A ( converted to 12 volt negative ground ). When that car was 6 volt positive ground with an alternator I did not perceive a late cut-in. By the way I have a few pages from a Toronado shop manual, and that shows a 10 ohm resistor in parallel with the 'idiot' light, with both connected to terminal 1 of the alternator.
Terminal 2 is intended to be the battery voltage feedback to the alternator . . . very useful if the battery is electrically a long way from the alternator. Note the emphasis on 'electrically a long way' that could be a short distance with undersized conductors (wires), or a large physical distance, as in the battery mounted in the trunk. I think that feature was built into alternators to help reduce the amount of copper GM was putting in cars. My shop manuals show this terminal connected to a battery junction block. The Saturday night show crowd run a short jumper wire from the alternator output back to terminal 2. The irony is that many 'one wire' internal regulators have this feature built-in.
I have a pretty comprehensive Delco alternator parts book. I have not found rotors or stators specifically for 6 volt applications. I do find a distinction between 12 volt versus 24 volt components. I've assumed 6 volt alternators are assembled using 12 volt components. There are 6 volt specific voltage regulators ( no surprise there ), and positive or negative ground specific rectifiers ( again no surprises ). Some of the regulators are clearly described as 'one-wire', and some regulators have webbed terminals ( terminals 1 and 2 connected together). I'm not sure what that's all about yet.
You can go too far wrong installing a 'one wire' alternator with only one wire connected . . . that is the intent of that product. My motivation with the Model A was to configure the wiring to accept a standard replacement alternator available as a 'rebuilt' from any parts house just in case of a break-down a long way from home. The GM standard was a three-wire configuration, so that's how I wired my Model A. Along the way to that goal I got a cut-in speed more suited to the Model A's idle speed. If the PowerGen on the '48 lets me down on the road, then a considerable more creativity will need to be exercised.
dp

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Posted on: 2015/8/26 22:23
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