It was Owen... I just appreciate whoever placed them online for us!

Eric

Gerd,

I am sure you would make me happy, wasn't debating that. Wasn't even trying to get into a disagreement over semantics. Keep in mind that I didn't even know these cars existed until more recently other than growing up seeing a few as Russian limousines. If the ZIL and Packard are the same exact car, no need to go through the trouble of frame scans for them as I already have all the Packard frames from 1946-1958. But since I saw the movie "Babylon AD" and the 1977 GAZ frame as the car was hoisted into the air, it caught my attention that it was unique and wondered about the background history? Obviously the 1960 GAZ looked like a Packard but anything past that I am not sure or what they were trying to immitate or steal from? It is no secret I have a fascination about automobiles with X-frame technology. The tubular X that General Motors introduced on the 1957 Cadillac (I have frame scan as well as US Patent diagrams for this) was inspired by the Mercedes 300D frame of the early 1950s (that too I am still trying to find a chart for). The 1977 GAZ seems to have a frame design similar to both yet not quite and wondered if it was especially made for those cars for how many years and if inspired by what? Having a chart representative would be nice to actually see what they look like and know when they stopped using the X-frame?

Thanks!

Eric

Snapey,

Mal was kind enough to scan and post good quality diagrams of the 1937-38 frames on the first page of this thread. Look at entry #4 of this thread. From what I can tell, the 1937-1939 frames are all the same. Not sure if 1934-1936 are the same but keeping fingers crossed that someone will post them too as well as the 1932-1933.

There are owners of these years in the group - maybe they will chime in?

Eric

Jerry, yes, Packard would be nice now. But in all fairness, you NEGLECTED to mention to everyone here that I offered to pay for the copies and postage of the other cars.

Eric

I pretty much looked them over and the only ones online that show frames were the 1937-38 and 1938-39 years from the 1930s and early 40s. There are some "pictures" of the frame but none with dimensions like in those two books. Even the 1935 shop manual is laid out different than the others and doesn't have a frame section. Odd.

Hopefully someone will take pity on me and supply them But if I get them from an offline source, I will definately post them here so other people won't have to go through what I am going through now to locate them.

Eric

You got me there... but the 1977 GAZ I mentioned isn't a clone yet earler year models were. Guess that is what I am querying about.

Geezz.. was just trying to make small talk. Give a guy a break.

Wasn't sure if they were the same? If so then yes, I have it. But the frame for the GAZ is of an unusual, non Packard design... at least the movie which was a 1977 GAZ 14 Chaika.

Oh wow, this is the first time I knew that the ZIL was a cousin to Packard. I knew they had some similar looks and heard the Russians stole the design somewhat especially with 1960 GAZ (different car make).

Some Russian designs are sleek and elegant in their own way (such as their aircraft) but are terrible mechanically. I did note one in a movie I watched not long ago entitled "Babylon AD" a GAZ in it with a frame that looked somewhat similar to the tubular X from G.M. of the late 1950s with hints of a Mercedes 300 D frame as well. Wonder where they stole the chassis design from?

Anyone out there with ZIL or GAZ shop manuals that may have frame diagrams with dimensions for these unusual clones?


Eric

With your treasure-trove of items I am sure you have them there somewhere

Sorry you got a summer cold... the worst kind! Many people here in Virginia are suffering from sinus issues right now. The kind of work I do I can't afford to take time off... the place would fall apart in a week. As Mrs. Slocombe in "Are You Being Served" use to say... "and I am unanimous in that decision" ... I think?

Eric

Dag Gone... just saw your post. No more service manuals in you collection? Was hoping for at least 1932-1935. Jerry has 1939 on which will help for '39-'42. Waiting on him to reply.

Anyone out there with a 1932 and a 1935 or abouts with books to help out? Thanks guys!

BigKev, Any luck with your stack of goodies at home last night? Thanks!

Eric