Happy Easter and welcome to Packard Motor Car Information! If you're new here, please register for a free account.  
Login
Username:

Password:

Remember me



Lost Password?

Register now!
FAQ's
Main Menu
Recent Forum Topics
Who is Online
118 user(s) are online (76 user(s) are browsing Forums)

Members: 0
Guests: 118

more...
Helping out...
PackardInfo is a free resource for Packard Owners that is completely supported by user donations. If you can help out, that would be great!

Donate via PayPal
Video Content
Visit PackardInfo.com YouTube Playlist

Donate via PayPal

Forum Index


Board index » All Posts (ironhead.chris)




Re: Manual brake conversion
#51
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away

Chris R
So, I got under there yesterday and had a look. I think the reason the aftermarket pedal hasn't been done is because it would be very difficult.

The issue is space and the triangulated frame section in that area. The brake pedal mounts right between it and its very tight.

I found the attached images from an old ebay listing. You can kinda see what I'm talking about. Keep in mind, the frame wall that the linkage passes through has been cut away and is missing.

I think my best bet at this point is to find a 55+ torsion setup and go from there. Hopefully finding these parts isn't super difficult.

EDIT: I just realized that the tags in the images say 52-54, but the brake linkage is pointing towards the rear and the pedal tab that the linkage mounts to is on the bottom. I'm guessing this was really a 55+ torsion setup?

-Chris

Attach file:



jpg  s-l1600 (1).jpg (311.26 KB)
110032_608981dfdbcdd.jpg 1200X1600 px

jpg  s-l1600 (2).jpg (314.42 KB)
110032_608981e6e0a84.jpg 1200X1600 px

jpg  s-l1600 (3).jpg (253.63 KB)
110032_608981ed69996.jpg 1200X1600 px

Posted on: 2021/4/28 10:40
 Top 


Re: Manual brake conversion
#52
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away

Chris R
Quote:

HH56 wrote:
Quote:
The plan is to mount a modern booster and dual circuit master under the floor like hotrodders do. In order to achieve this, I need the rod going towards the back of the car, not the front.

This was discussed a few years ago during some of the BTV replacement threads but don't recall any posts of someone ever trying it. In addition to modifying the original pedal there was also some thought of using a modern weld or bolt in hot rodder pedal and booster assy under the car instead of trying to modify or source another pedal and then still need to do the other mods.http://www.abspowerbrake.com/maincatalog_frameset038.html

In addition to TL clearance issues on 55-6 models another issue that caused some concern with the under floor setup is that by the time the assy is put together most of the modern boosters capable of stopping Packard's weight will have a height of 8" or more. The 51 and later frame rails are only around 5 1/2 or 6" high so unless some accommodation is made in the floor pan to accommodate the diameter and could be hidden under the seat it would mean a portion of the booster will hang under the frame unprotected and vulnerable to road debris. On that ABS page there is a mini booster unit at 6" but the question on that unit was the small booster strong enough to stop a 2 ton car.


Thanks Howard! I hadn't even thought about the clearance issues involved with mounting a booster under the floor. Having something come up and take out the brakes definitely wouldn't be good.

So, as of right now, it sounding more and more like just doing manual brakes might be the best choice.

The biggest issue that I see right now is mounting the pedal its self. On these cars the manual pedal mounted right between that "V" section of the frame. Using the factory parts would be nice because everything would just bolt into place. The rod and master setup would be easy to add afterwards.

I'll get under the car today and see exactly what I'm dealing with in regards to room.

Thanks again!

-Chris

Posted on: 2021/4/27 13:56
 Top 


Re: Manual brake conversion
#53
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away

Chris R
Quote:

Ross wrote:
MC was mounted just behind the steering gear on all manual brake cars through 56 unless it was a Torsion Level car with manual brakes. On those it was mounted under the floor because of clearance problems with the bars.


Thank you Ross, that clears up a lot. I saw some manual masters were mounted both ways but thought the under the floor layout was with manual trans vehicles.

The plan is to mount a modern booster and dual circuit master under the floor like hotrodders do. In order to achieve this, I need the rod going towards the back of the car, not the front.

So, for what I'm trying to do, I think the 55+ manual setup would be best.

Does anyone know if the 55+ pedal setup would bolt onto a 54- frame?

I suppose I could always modify the bottom of a 54- pedal to make this work as well.

What do you guys think?

-Chris


Quote:

JWL wrote:
Chris, I had Ross Miller convert the Easamatic brake system on my 55 Clipper (non Torsion Level) to a conventional single master cylinder. All parts (pedal, cylinder, etc.) were from a pre-55 Packard. I was most pleased with the performance, smooth and efficient without much pedal pressure needed. Many non power brake Packard parts out there. I think you will like the change.


Thanks for the reply JWL. I have thought about going with only manual brakes, but aside from trying to get rid of the Treadle-Vac, I'm trying to upgrade to a dual circuit master cylinder.

As of now, it sounds like the only way I'm going to achieve this, is by mounting it under the floor like the 55+ cars. If I'm going to have to go through all that just to mount the dual circuit, I'm thinking adding a booster won't be too much more work.

With that being said, I thank you for your input because I haven't driven a Packard with manual brakes and was under the impression that it wouldn't be a pleasant experience. After your reply, if I can't make the booster work, I won't worry about it too much.

Thanks again!

-Chris

Posted on: 2021/4/27 12:37
 Top 


Re: Manual brake conversion
#54
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away

Chris R
Still doing some research on this.

It appears that the manual master cylinder was mounted in front of the firewall down low on Ultramatic cars, and mounted behind the firewall underneath the floor on cars with a manual transmission.

Can anyone confirm this?

Thank you,

-Chris

Posted on: 2021/4/25 4:07
 Top 


Posted in wrong area - Please delete
#55
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away

Chris R
Posted in wrong area - Please delete

Posted on: 2021/4/25 1:22
 Top 


Re: Ultramatic not kicking down.
#56
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away

Chris R
Quote:

HH56 wrote:
The 53 has what is considered the regular or original Ultramatic. For driving purposes, it is essentially a one speed transmission with torque multiplication in the converter. When you select H it starts and stays in high range with the direct drive lockout of the converter occurring starting somewhere around 20 mph depending on throttle position. If the driver is heavy on the pedal the more throttle and the direct drive engagement comes in at a later speed. Below about 50 a quick depression of the accelerator will drop it out of direct drive back into converter drive but it is still in high range. Anytime the car is going above approx 50 mph the direct drive will not drop out with the quick depression.

The timing of the direct drive engagement is highly dependent on the correct adjustment of the throttle linkage and that resulting pressure. Other pressures controlled by the throttle pressure also influence how tightly the high range clutch plates are clamped together. Too low a pressure and the high range clutches can be subject to slipping and burning.

Low range works exactly the same way except the car starts and stays in low range.

There is no synchronized timing between low and high range so the practice some have gotten into of starting in low and manually shifting to high is not recommended. Done under power the low band can release before the high range clutch applies letting the engine race and rely on the high range clutch plates finally grabbing and slowing the engine or the low range band and high range clutches can both be in at the same time causing a tremendous strain. Either situation can result in possible damage in the transmission. If a driver does insist on the manual shift let off the accelerator and wait for the transmission to complete the shift before re-applying power.

Packard did try to address this issue with the availability of an improved timing kit for the 54 models and made that kit retroactive to earlier units if the customer wanted to buy it but it was not completely successful. In late 54 they introduced the gear start Ultramatic -- later called the Twin Ultramatic -- which in one driver selected range worked as the original, and in another driver selected range did shift from low to high to direct drive and was capable of downshifts.


Thanks Howard for the great info!

I didn't know half of all that. I guess I should have spent some time reading up on the Ultramatic awhile ago to familiarize myself with it. I just assumed it worked like a traditional automatic.

I'll have to look into adjusting the throttle linkage. Going off of how everything has been so far, I'm assuming it's probably out of adjustment.

That's good to know about the manual shifting. I don't plan to ever shift it manually, but I appreciate knowing how to do it now if I needed to.

Thanks again, I super appreciate it!

-Chris

Posted on: 2021/4/13 11:43
 Top 


Ultramatic not kicking down.
#57
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away

Chris R
Hello all,

I finally drove the convertible for the first time yesterday! We've had her for about a year now so it was way overdue. It was such a great experience.

Anywho, on the drive, the transmission didn't seem very happy. It would shift really early and kind of lug until a higher speed was achieved.

Worse than that, she didn't seem to want to kick down to first after slowing down for a corner and reaccelerating outside of said corner. Again, lugging until a higher speed was achieved.

When I'd come to a full stop, she'd start off in first every time.

I tried looking through the factory repair manual to see if similar symptoms were described and I didn't see anything.

Does this sound like some kind of an adjustment, or is something stuck or broken?

The car is a 1953 300 Convertible Coupe btw.

Thanks guys,

-Chris

EDIT: I should mention that I did perform a forum search before I made this thread. I couldn't find anything that pertained to this issue.

Posted on: 2021/4/9 10:59
 Top 


Re: 1953 327 belt sizes
#58
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away

Chris R
Quote:

BigKev wrote:
Also I think before people had best listed under cooling and also engine. So that may have been the reason you didn't see them all. The search box should help with that now.


Ah, okay. That makes sense. I didn't even think to check cooling initially.

Thanks again for the help.

-Chris

Posted on: 2021/4/6 9:59
 Top 


Re: 1953 327 belt sizes
#59
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away

Chris R
Hey guys,

Thanks for the help. Funny enough, I checked the parts X-Reference before doing anything.

For whatever reason, I missed the fan belt on there. Don't know how I could have because its listed a ton of times.

The 51-54 generator belt isn't on there though. It could be that I didn't see that and moved on.

Anywho, I ended up taking care of the belts this morning. I have an extra 327 laying around that was from a parts car.

I checked those belts for markings and saw that it had a Gates 7410 for the generator belt, and a Gates 7455 for the PS pump belt.

My local Napa ended up having both of these in stock. They are made by Gates but have Napa markings on them.

The part numbers are as follows:

Generator Belt: Napa - 25 7410 / Gates 7410

PS Belt: Napa - 25 7455 / Gates 7455

I threw these on the car and they fit perfectly. I'll go ahead and add them to the parts X-reference after I submit this reply.

That search box is a great add Kev! I'm sure it'll be super helpful in the future.

Thanks again fellas,

-Chris

Attach file:



jpg  Generator Belt.jpg (284.99 KB)
110032_6067a7232c24f.jpg 1920X1440 px

jpg  PS Belt.jpg (160.89 KB)
110032_6067a7369490d.jpg 1920X1440 px

Posted on: 2021/4/2 18:22
 Top 


1953 327 belt sizes
#60
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away

Chris R
Hello all,

My 53 convertible coupe needs new belts.

She's got a 327 with PS. Anyone know what size fan belt and PS pump is correct?

Thank you,

-Chris

Posted on: 2021/3/31 22:42
 Top 



TopTop
« 1 ... 3 4 5 (6) 7 8 9 10 »



Search
Recent Photos
Photo of the Day
Recent Registry
Website Comments or Questions?? Click Here Copyright 2006-2024, PackardInfo.com All Rights Reserved