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Board index » All Posts (ironhead.chris)




Re: Carter 4 barrel base gasket question
#61
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Chris R
Hey Ross,

Thanks for the response. That's pretty interesting. I figured it had to be for something, I just couldn't figure it out for the life of me.

Anywho, I went ahead and ordered both of the gaskets and a new insulator. Hopefully she'll be purrin' like a kitten soon enough.

Thanks again,

-Chris

Posted on: 2021/3/29 10:40
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Carter 4 barrel base gasket question
#62
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Chris R
Hello all,

Since the carb is all freshened up, I thought it would be a good idea to replace both carb base gaskets while I was at it.

I was hesitant to pull the base insulator because I was afraid it would brake due to it's age. Well... It broke...

So, I'm going to order a new one from Max Merritt. While I was poking around on their site, I noticed the factory style base gasket design.

It looks as though, there is a cutout where the two holes of the base insulator line up to. I also looked under the carb and it looks like there is a channel or cutout on it as well.

Does anyone know what the purpose of this channel or cutout is for?

Thank you,

-Chris

Attach file:



jpeg  Base Gasket.jpeg (31.49 KB)
110032_605e2418ae5aa.jpeg 638X479 px

jpeg  Base Insulator.jpeg (27.88 KB)
110032_605e241f2685f.jpeg 640X480 px

Posted on: 2021/3/26 13:12
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Re: WCFB Carburetor Venturi inserts?
#63
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Chris R
Quote:

Fish'n Jim wrote:
Measure the diam with the inserts and see if it's 15/16".

Since it's cast symmetric, they had to use inserts/sleeve to reduce the bore. From the hammer marks, it's was most likely hand formed, not pressed, but I wouldn't rule it as "homemade".
I don't know this model, but if called for in the specs, it probably matches the advance curve, etc to provide the correct fuel flow. This is carburetor's "magic era". Didn't get them figured out til about the late 60s. It may not perform well with larger stock secondaries, if the cam isn't designed for that. ie, a smooth riding family car vs max HP.
Unless you want to get into a complete performance redo, I'd leave them, if it was working OK before. I suspect if you take them out you might have to re-jet, etc. to correct the fuel mix.
Not a biggie, per se. The change in flow is minor.
Could even be some "economy" gadget they hawked back in the day. Lots of things happen over that many years.


Hey Jim! I apologize to you as well! I totally spaced on getting back to everyone.

Unfortuanly I got the carb together right after my last reply. I don't think I'd be able to accurately measure them as of right now.

Yeah, I agree that they look hand formed. I don't know if I mentioned it before or not, but the receipts found in the glovebox show that the carb has been rebuilt at least three or four times since the mid seventies. Maybe one of those shops performed the modification.

I did leave 'em in there. I figured it couldn't hurt because the car probably ran before in it's current configuration.

Although, whoever rebuilt it last, or got into it last, did a HORRIBLE job at rebuilding it. Every single setting was out of spec (some by a lot). The piston in the starter switch housing was upside down, the thermostat plate (choke baffle) was missing, along with a few linkage washers. Also, a bunch of screws were swapped around and in the wrong places.

So, who knows how well she actually ran before. I guess we'll find out soon enough.

Anywho, thanks for the info and sorry again.

-Chris

Posted on: 2021/3/22 21:00
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Re: WCFB Carburetor Venturi inserts?
#64
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Chris R
Quote:

DavidPackard wrote:
Chris R

The main difference between the 985S and 2084S configurations is the diameter of the secondary ‘main venturi’. The 985S parts list uses a 1 1/16 venturi, while the 2084S uses a 15/16 item. As you would expect once you change a venturi there were also different ‘jetting’ between the two carburetors. The original venturi size is cast into the float bowl/venturi casting, and can be seen in the photo as 1 1/16. Carter manuals acknowledge the interchangeability between the 985S and 2084S carburetors

The plot thickens somewhat in the ’54 Cavalier. In that application there is a 15/16 ‘secondary main venturi’ model (2103S), and a 1 1/16 ‘secondary main venturi’ model (2124S). My ’54 Cavalier is equipped with a 2103S carburetor . . . . which would be the smaller of the two.

Seems that WCFB carburetors with a 15/16 secondary venturi is rarer than I would have guessed. Oldsmobile used them in ’53, ’54, and ’55. For each of the original carburetors there was a later model replacement, but those replacements were also configured with a 15/16 secondary venturi. I could not find another example where the replacement carburetor had a smaller secondary venturi.

The float bowl/venturi casting (known as the Main Body in Carter speak) is one of the few parts (perhaps the only) that does not appear in the illustrated parts list. Back in the day you can buy the body flange assembly and the air horn assembly, but not the casting between the two, leaving us with the possibility that the Packard dealer may not have been able to buy the parts necessary to convert a 985S to a 2084S at the dealer. I guess this assumes there was an itchy that needed scratching out in the field and whether the ’53 Cavalier was misbehaving. Given that other car manufacture’s where not ‘down-sizing’ the secondary’s I’m thinking Packard was not chasing lower fuel volatility.

Now the question is whether the casting in the photo was modified by an individual, or was it an authorized repair/overhaul procedure to convert the larger casting to the smaller specifications. I would think the step between the Main Body and the venturi inserts suggest this was not a Carter modification. I would question whether that geometry would ever act as a venturi . . . lots of turbulence shedding off of the edge, and those areas where material was removed (aligned with the struts holding the primary venturi) look like another opportunity to create turbulence.

I’ve never seen anything like your photo, or heard of venturi chokes, and I was an old hotrodder . . . just old now! I can’t imagine how much CFM that modification cost. What secondary jets and metering rods are installed?

dp


Yikes! I supper apologize for the late reply! I saw your reply earlier but totally spaced on getting back to you. Sorry again about that!

Anywho, that's super interesting info about the different variations of this carburetor. I would have never thought prior to rebuilding this carb that there were more than one.

My carb definitely has 1 1/16 casted on both sides. As far as jetting goes, I want to say that all of the top (low speed) jets were the same. The lower jets next to the needles were larger than the ones in the rear. Unfortunately, the carb is all put back together so I can't say for certain what any of 'em are at this point.

Haha! You're only as old as ya feel man!

Yeah, I've never heard of 'em either. I left 'em in for the time being though. I figure, it must have been running before, so we'll see what happens.

Thanks again for the help! I super appreciate it!

Posted on: 2021/3/22 20:45
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Re: Heater core fittings
#65
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Chris R
Update:

I ended up going with part# NOE 6601737 for the water pump. Napa had it in stock and it installed without a problem.

They didn't stock part# BK 6601548, so I had to order it. I went there today to pick it up, and it looked completely different from the image on the website. The gentleman said the online picture was old.

It now looks like the attached image. I didn't like the way it looked, so I ended up ordering this fitting from Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B013XU0X8W

I think it looks a lot better, but I'm not nuts about the color. The plan is to sandblast it, and paint it gray like the engine.

Anyway, thanks again for the help HH56.

-Chris

Attach file:



jpg  s-l400.jpg (15.49 KB)
110032_604d890edf1bc.jpg 400X400 px

Posted on: 2021/3/13 22:55
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Re: Radiator Cap
#66
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Chris R
Quote:

Fish'n Jim wrote:
This might help.


Thanks Fish'n Jim!

-Chris

Posted on: 2021/3/13 22:40
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Re: Radiator Cap
#67
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Chris R
Quote:

BigKev wrote:
13lb will be fine. It just important to get the right one that is deep enough, otherwise it will be a 0lb cap!


Haha. That wouldn't be good!

So I picked one up today. I ended up going with a 13 lb that you posted in the Parts Cross-Reference area.

It's a Balkamp BK 7031697 from NAPA, which is the same as a Stant 10229 that can be purchased at O'Reillys, or most part houses.

It fits perfectly in my stock radiator.

Thanks again BigKev!

-Chris

Posted on: 2021/3/13 22:40
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Re: Heater core fittings
#68
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Chris R
I was pokin around on Napa's site, and I found this one too.

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/NDP6601737

Part#: NOE 6601737 (incase the link ever changes)

It looks exactly like my current water pump fitting.

Just another option for other members in the future that run into this thread.

Thanks again HH56!

-Chris

Attach file:



png  Water Pump Fitting.PNG (236.39 KB)
110032_604ae4b48cd09.png 1433X460 px

Posted on: 2021/3/11 22:38
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Re: Heater core fittings
#69
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Chris R
Wow HH56! That's exactly what I needed! I was seriously worried that nothing would be available and I'd be stuck having to figure something out.

Also, I appreciate the advice about the penetrating oil. I'll definitely hit 'em with some Kroil and let them sit for awhile.

Thank you so much!

-Chris

Posted on: 2021/3/11 22:09
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Re: Radiator Cap
#70
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Just can't stay away

Chris R
Thanks for clearing that up BigKev! Also, thank you for telling me about the Factory Service Index. I'll definitely check that out from now on.

I have one more question. On the Parts Cross-Reference, I keep seeing 7 & 13 lb caps. Are 6 & 12 lb caps no longer available?

With all the 13's listed, I'm assuming that's what I should go with correct?

-Chris

Posted on: 2021/3/11 22:00
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