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Board index » All Posts (carfreak6970)




Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
#71
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CarFreak
Quote:

b.wilson wrote:
Hi Carfreak

Watching your progress with interest. I have a 56 Clipper Deluxe with shabby paintwork which needs tidying up. Couple of thoughts:

1 If you get your hands on a good 352, and go with that, it might be a good solution. That's obviously what my Clipper has but it was fitted by a previous owner with an Edelbrock 4-barrel carby and twin exhaust system (which I guess you already have). Mine is auto and gets along very nicely with that setup. I don't know whether the compression was raised - doubt it. Important to check that the original oil pump has been converted in either case. Then you lose the vacuum wipers, but not too hard to rig up electric ones.

2 That's good advice about refitting the power steering if you can. My Clipper is right hand drive, so came without it because it could not be fitted as an option. As a result, I'm developing an impressive physique! You'll want to fit radial tyres of some sort to your car, especially if you sort the suspension bushes and Torsion Level out. Radials will make the steering even heavier at low speeds. But it will drive like a dream.They really do drive like the one in the video at the Proving Grounds when everything is working correctly.

Good luck with the project. You have a great starting point. Lots of fiddly things to do. By the time you're done, you'll be the expert!


b.wilson,
I was thinking of looking for a 352 and just boring it out to 374. But that means I need to source a 352 and then still tear it down to make sure all the clearances check out. If I am going to do that I might as well tear down the 374 we have and check that first before I just go about sourcing another engine. I remember driving the Caribbean and that had decent pick up in Low, but we always kept it in high to prevent the transmission from shifting more than it should. We are going with the Oldsmobile pump in both the Caribbean and Patrician. The Caribbean wont get electric wipers, if there is rain in the forecast it wont go out plus I don't see that going too far from home until new seals are obtained for the doors, top and trunk. The patrician will get electric wipers.

As mentioned above, Id like to go with power steering. Id like more family members to feel comfortable handling this and I feel a lot of them would be turned off if driving the car felt like going to the gym.



Quote:

And when your dad looks down on you, he'll be smiling.

Brian


and thank you for that

Posted on: 2020/4/27 10:08
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
#72
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CarFreak
Quote:

Leeedy wrote:


You will want to be very, very, very careful about mixing dashes on this factory A/C car. HVAC controls are different. Graphic indicators will be different. Cable lengths and routing are different. Electrical harness is different. Ducting is different. Glove box inners are different. AND there are other differences. Best to leave a factory A/C dash alone unless you are very familiar with the car and the system... and most people aren't.

And disconnecting A/C lines at the firewall may seem very straightforward, but most Packard V-8 factory A/C disasters start right here with someone disconnecting lines without using two fitting wrenches (instead of one). Usually the evaporator core is thus damaged and this usually doesn't show up until one goes to pressurize the system. Then the nightmare begins since the dash and evaporator core need to be pulled to do any repairs. All of which could be avoided by knowing ahead of time and using the right tools and techniques. And the workshop manual does not tell you this!

Someone in the past has apparently done a lot of parts swapping in this Patrician. The more you swap parts, the more you invite problems and unintended disasters. I seriously doubt the manual transmission is original-especially on a loaded A/C car. And you'll be sorry if you don't put the steering back to power steering... unless the driver is a bodybuilder.




Thank you Leeedy for that information!! that is incredibly helpful about the dash boards! I guess I should elaborate on what I wanted to do with the dashes:

The dash board had a Mopar radio fitted to it and a speaker that was mounted by screwing through the gold faced trim. So I don't know if the dash was cut to get this radio to fit (on the list to find out), but at least the gold faced trim needs to be replaced due to the holes created to mount the aftermarket speaker. Luckily one of the other dashboards was an A/C dash if I need to use that frame. I only have the one wiring harness and that was removed from this Patrician. The parts I was thinking of swapping was stuff like gauge bezels, switches etc. Essentially finding the trim pieces that look the best cleaned up and installing onto the dash that goes into the car.


On that topic, is there a polish that can be used on the gold faced trim? I got the turtle wax polish you get at the parts stores and that works great on chrome and stainless, but not so much on that gold faced trim.


Thanks for the warning about the evaporator. I already got the lines removed from the firewall and it appears someone used thread locker on those connections... So it was a pain to remove those lines even without the engine in!! I have no idea how you would be able to do it with the engine in there. But I was interested in doing what HH56 did with one of his A/C cars and retro fit a newer style evaporator, compressor and condenser in. I do have the original style compressor but from the research here no one has been able to find replacement parts for that. Also, the byplass valve (I believe that's what it is called) is more than difficult to source.

My dad removed the power steering and installed that 3 speed. I would like to install the power steering once the car gets on the road, the hoses and power steering pump was still mounted in the car when it rolled into the garage and I believe the power components that were removed are sitting up in our Packard shed. To my understanding the car was running and driving after the 3 speed was swapped in. I don't have information on if the overdrive worked, but the wiring is there, and the transmission will be gone through.

Posted on: 2020/4/27 9:55
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
#73
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CarFreak
Just a small update.

Not too much happened in the past couple months. Needed to fix the multiple leaks in the family's old Dodge Charger and that took a lot longer than I anticipated, but it usually does. I finally got that done and took it for a small cruise around town before I started to tear into the Patrician again. I got the dash board and dash wiring and associated engine bay wiring out of the car. In the process I removed the toe plate with the TreadleVac and the column as well. The TreadleVac was sent to Ross Miller to get rebuilt for the Caribbean and the one on the Caribbean will be rebuild and used on the Patrician. We had two spare 56 senior dash boards in the Packard Shed and I took those two and the Patrician dash out to Pittsburgh with me to build one with the best parts.

The main goal is to get the car pretty much stripped of components while leaving it a roller to get all the dirty sanding and metal work done before the cold weather hits. That way I can start the paint and paint prep over winter and spring of next year to hopefully get it running before next year is out. During this time the engine and trans will be rebuilt. While that is being done at the parent's house Ill be trying to get the trans work done in Pittsburgh, dash painted as well as interior trim painted. I also hope to get the seats to an upholstery shop before the end of the year to get some holes in the moleskin patched up.

Posted on: 2020/4/24 9:14
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
#74
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CarFreak
Quote:

HH56 wrote:
I will start by posting a factory photo with a partial view of what Don is asking about. A good photo and approximate length of the bare unconnected lines would answer many questions on exactly how Packard rerouted the filter lines. Biggest question is did the supply line go in front of or behind the thermostat housing and where does it bend to clear or turn upward to get to the filter port.

Most engines have the filter on the left with a short supply line that runs straight back and up but when the factory AC compressor is mounted the oil filter moves from the side of the left head on the engine to the right side of engine and is positioned forward and lower than the original location. It bolts onto the end of the compressor bracket. The question is the shape and where the new longer oil supply line is routed from the oil supply port on the front of the left head to get to the new input fitting location on the rear side of the filter canister. The return line also is different and looks to be just a short curved piece that goes into a 90 degree fitting on top of the block but if you have photos of that one as well it would help answer future questions.



Thank you for clearing that up. I was unaware of the filter location change between the Non-A/c and A/C cars.

When we finally got the car back in 2010 the engine was already removed with some specific A/C parts in the trunk. The Oil filter assembly was not among them. Ill keep that in the back of my mind when it comes to looking for the remaining engine parts in the Packard Shed. It could of stayed with the engine when it was removed back in the 90's, or the old man could of kept it when he got it back on the road. I dont know, I have to look.

thank you for making me aware of these differences!

Posted on: 2020/2/6 14:25
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
#75
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CarFreak
Quote:

PackardDon wrote:
If possible, can you please show some photos of the longer of the two oil filter lines from different angles? I'm trying to determine if the new one I have has gotten a slight extra bend there or if it's supposed to be that way.


Hey PackardDon,

what oil filter lines are you talking about? If its lines on the engine, I currently dont have the engine assembled. But if its something on the firewall or fenders, I may have some pictures.

Posted on: 2020/2/6 8:19
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
#76
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CarFreak
This past weekend I was in town and got some work done between the other car work that was on the list to complete. Got power seat and lock relays removed, got the solenoids for the suspension removed, got the A/C lines removed, gas pedal and linkage removed and some other stuff off of the passenger fender.

Slowly moving along!

Posted on: 2020/2/4 15:33
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Re: Any Recent Develoments In The BTV Relacement Brake Pedal Front?
#77
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CarFreak
So I have been looking on this site on the BTV conversion and I see people going to the vacuum booster that takes up the drivers side fresh air vent. In my case I would rather not use that method, the car in question is an A/C car.

I have seen people use vacuum boosters and a couple people use a hydro boost system, I think someone used it from a 71-72 Lincoln.

I was looking at the 56 Patrician this past weekend and it would appear if the booster/master cylinder assembly was moved outboard of the column there would be a decent amount of room ahead. This would require a bell crank that would connect the stock pedal to the back of the booster/master cylinder. With that bell crank a pedal ratio could be factored in. I am not to sure if it would be the optimal 4:1 ratio, but something is better than nothing. The car I was thinking of robbing these parts out of was a 96-98 or 03-04 SVT Mustang. Another benefit of this is that all the mount points/brackets would be on the frame rail, so the force gets transferred to the thicker metal there as opposed to the firewall.

I do understand if your power steering pump goes out, line bursts or the car stalls you loose your power assisted option. But if your car stalls you would still loose the power assist on a vacuum boosted car.

Thoughts?

Posted on: 2020/2/3 11:46
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
#78
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CarFreak
Quote:

Owen_Dyneto wrote:
You can easily tell a 1955 (Packard-built) from a 1956 (Dana built) rear axle by simple visual observation. The Dana unit has a stamped steel rear cover plate retained by threaded capscrews, the Packard unit does not have a removable rear cover, you pull the entire pumpkin from the forward side to access the internals.

Or just pull a rear wheel cover, 56 has lug nuts on studs attached to the axle flange, 55 has lug bolts threaded into the brake drum.




Thank you for that Owen_Dyneto. After I posted I realized the packard rear end had to have the drum pulled off after a nut was removed from the axle shaft. Well I have pictures showing the wheel without that center nut. So clearly not a 55 rear end. Never knew the 55 was the banjo style rear end!

thank you for being patient with me on this, still learning.

Posted on: 2020/1/29 16:39
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
#79
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CarFreak
Quote:

Owen_Dyneto wrote:
I think you are incorrectly calculating the rear axle ratio from the # of turns of the shaft versus the road wheel. Driveshaft turns to produce 1 road wheel revolution must be multiplied by 2 to give the differential ratio. And of course when making the measurement the other road wheel needs to held still or on the pavement.

Another thing on the steering you might check, Packards with power steering had different (faster) ratio steering gear boxes than those in cars with manual steering. The different ratios are all given in the specifications in the 1956 Service Counselors. For example in the 1956 Patrician, the power steering gear box was 16.4/1, in the manual steering 22.3/1.



Huh... I thought you only did the multiplication factor when dealing with an open rear end... but if that is the case it would be either the 3.54, 3.9 (55 gear) or 4.09. Which is good, so long as it is not a 55 rear due to needing a puller to get the drum off, correct? So I need to take a rear wheel off and see what style rear end I have. On a 56 I should just be able to slide the drum off without a puller correct?

and good to know about the steering box! dang... even more to think about now. Would these idle/pitman arms and steering box have part numbers marked on them for me to figure out what I have?

Posted on: 2020/1/29 12:13
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
#80
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CarFreak
Quote:

PackardDon wrote:
Quote:
The car appears to have been converted to manual steering. The manual cross link is there, but the power steering pump is tied off to the side. So haven't decided if I will leave it manual, or put the power back in (the power cross link is in the Packard Shed).


If the car originally had power steering and you decide to keep the non-power, be sure that the pitman and idler arms are for the non-power steering cars. I can't speak specifically for the V8 models but at least in 1952 the power steering arms were longer and gave a slightly tighter steering radius when so equipped but if used on a car without power, the wheel will be much harder to turn.


That is good to know!! Ill have to check the part manual to see if there is indeed a different number between the two. Ill have to check that out.



Owen_Dyneto
I was aware of the two gear sets you mentioned. However, given that I barely got two turns out of the drive shaft after one revolution of the wheel I figured it would be the lowest of the gear sets and I would of gotten closer to 3 turns of the driveshaft for the 3.31 or 3.07

Posted on: 2020/1/29 9:04
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