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Re: The Duchess Project: 1940 Super 8 Convertible Sedan
#1
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Thanks, Everyone.

Dave - I won't use anything but a gasket-spacer-gasket.

JW - That tube with the rubber is. the Throttle Guard vacuum tube. I was told at the Oregon shop that is was leaking air so they disconnected it and added. the rubber. The auto choke heat tube is on the bad side.

I took pix of all the disassembly in hopes I can put it all back together correctly. I'll post those later.

Kevin - You're absolutely right. There was just a gasket and no spacer. Most likely the cause of the volatile winter bland gas getting hot and percolating. Of course it never did this in 2 years since the carb went on until I bought a tank of winter blend in November.

I removed the carb and removed the studs using the double nut method. On my way to auto store for 2" studs instead of the 1-1/2" ones I pulled.

Fingers cross. Thanks again.

Posted on: 1/2 12:17
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Re: The Duchess Project: 1940 Super 8 Convertible Sedan
#2
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I haven't removed the carb yet, just in the process, but I noticed in that article the a gasket should go on either side of the spacer. I have those, but
QUESTION: Do I need to use some kind of sealant?

Thanks in advance.

Posted on: 1/2 10:39
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Re: The Duchess Project: 1940 Super 8 Convertible Sedan
#3
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PERCOLATING/BOILING FUEL: I think this article in HOT ROD has the answer.
https://www.hotrod.com/articles/mixing-new-fuel-for-old-cars/

Highly volatile winter fuel blend and lack of heat insulation for the carburetor.

Here are some excerpts:

"There are two serious concerns with ethanol blends: too-high RVP (Reid Vapor Pressure) causing vapor lock behavior and percolation of the fuel. "

Here is exactly what I described:
"The problems begin with a vintage fuel system that employs a dead-head pump and float bowls where the fuel can heat up and percolate. This problem is particularly acute after running the engine for a sustained period of time at highway speeds, then suddenly coming into stop-and-go traffic. The associated heat sink effect will elevate the temperature of the carburetor and the fuel will boil in the bowl. This can lead to serious flooding on some cars and hard starting problems when hot in other vehicles, while many other cars may notice rough idle characteristics."

"To prevent the fuel from boiling in the carburetor or fuel lines you should insulate the carburetor base to prevent unwanted heat sink."

Fortunately I found in my misc fuel box some spacers and gaskets to do the job. In 2018 I modified a 1/2" wrench to get the mounting nuts. With the spacer I will probably need new carb mounting studs, but I'd have to get them out. I may. need to lose the throttle guard.

Won't. be sure if this solves the problem, but I'm going to give it a try.

Wish me luck.

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Posted on: 1/2 9:50
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Re: The Duchess Project: 1940 Super 8 Convertible Sedan
#4
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Posted on: 1/1 16:12
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Re: The Duchess Project: 1940 Super 8 Convertible Sedan
#5
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Ross,
When you have the time, I'd love to drive the car up to your shop to fix it.

John Imlay's article, the pdf I posted, mostly from AAA, about seasonal blends, satisfied him that he was experiencing vapor lock on his '37 Twelve in winter because of the more volatile winter blend.

You think it's the condenser? Did the Studie overflow gas and boil it in the carb as in. the video? BTW. I love the '53 Starliner. I saw it backstage before the West Coast dealers saw it at the SF Opera House because I was in the musical that introduced the new styling.

On the freeway I have no problem whatsoever. I can drive it the legal freeway speed limit and faster if need be.

I've driven to Baltimore and back, an hour's drive, several times since the problem started. But when I pull off the freeway and the engine is at normal temp and idling at an intersection, it will quit, not every single stop, squirt gas out the top and have gas gurgling in the carb. It's all in the video. Please watch because I believe you can. help me.

Don, the bubbles in the fuel filter bowl are gone. I did disconnect the fuel line to do the fuel pressure. test. Perhaps there was an air leak before I did that. There are no bubbles in the video as there were plainly in yesterday's video.

That gas is boiling in the carb. Can that be caused by a pinhole in the float? Please. check out the end the video in the above post.
The carb is ejaculating gas from the float chamber vent. You can see this in the video plainly.

The carburetor was rebuilt by Daytona in 2018. The floats were set incorrectly, so it was returned for warranty work. It seems like a carburetor done properly should last longer than 1-1/2 years. I've asked my son to send the old Carter carb that I rebuilt myself and a new alternator I bought to me here. Just eliminate the VR and have no problem charging Optima batteries.

Last time in 2018 we changed damn near everything, another Easter Egg Hunt, not believing that a carb just rebuilt by one of the most reputable places in the country could. have a major defect.

Posted on: 1/1 12:52
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Re: The Duchess Project: 1940 Super 8 Convertible Sedan
#6
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Here is the video of this morning's startup. It's pretty boring until the end, because it kills me the engine is running so well and quits like this. I know it could be fine tuned, but if it's the gas causing the problem, This is Unfair!

This happens to no one else?

Is it Maryland gas?
(The State of Maryland, btw, is responsible to calibrating service station pumps. At one Exxon station in. Potomac I was able to put 18-1/2 gals in a 17 gal tank that was not close to empty. And yesterday at the Shell station, it was worse. My half-tank (9 gal) accepted, according to the pump, 15.5 gal. The excuse is Covid, the State doesn't have people calibrating, but in my experience, it's a major problem.)

I know that removing atmospheric pressure can cause water to boil at room temperature. Now I'm wondering if the oil bath air cleaner can cause gas to boil if. it isn't clean. I didn't service it when the oil (zinc racing oil) was changed is September.

Please watch the video and let me know if this has ever happened to you and, if so, what you did to stop it.

http://www.mktx.com/packard/010121CarbBoil.mp4

Posted on: 1/1 11:03
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Re: The Duchess Project: 1940 Super 8 Convertible Sedan
#7
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Thanks, Ernie.
I got some decent video of start-up this morning and, just what you mentioned, boiling gas inside the carburetor.

I have to piece it together and then I will post. I left my jug of MMO in Oregon, so I'll get some. Thanks.

Posted on: 1/1 10:09
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Re: The Duchess Project: 1940 Super 8 Convertible Sedan
#8
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Happy New Year!

I know it's a bit early for an Easter egg hunt, but that's what I'm on trying to sort the problem I'm having with fuel.

I've been told "It's always something with that car," and this time, after 4 months running beautifully, I hit the snag of the 5-year-old Optima batteries giving out (no longer fully rechargeable) and demanding so much charging that they burned out the top contact of the voltage regulator. I bought 2 new batteries that did not tax the system and Brillman honored their warranty beyond the call of duty and replaced the VR. So everything should have been fine.

But then I started having fuel problems. In the one an only 2020 issue of the Oregon Clipper magazine is an article on winter vapor lock. I read it a few months ago but it didn't stick in my brain. I showed the issue to my Sis and she suggested that the problem was winter-blend gasoline. I of course blew this off. I re-read the article this morning and I think she has something.
http://www.mktx.com/packard/P20-21The2020IssueWeb.pdf
If that is indeed the problem, I wonder if there's anything that can be added to the gas to prevent this.

WINTER BLEND GASOLINE evaporates easier than summer gas. The bubbling in my fuel filter could be an indication of winter vapor lock. The car only shuts down when the engine gets hot (not that hot, just when the thermostat indicator is straight up - normal operating temp).

It's hard to admit that a sister who teaches art knows more about car problems than I do. Now to make the Dave/Don adjustments to the auto choke setting, ignoring the manual. I might try my hand at adjusting the metering screws, too.

Posted on: 1/1 9:02
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Re: The Duchess Project: 1940 Super 8 Convertible Sedan
#9
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I figured out, this only happens when the engine is hot. Runs beautifully cold.

I'm taking Don and Dave's advice and first setting the choke to where it barely closes when cold, then verifying it has some tension keeping it wide open when it is hot.

But more and more I suspect the float(s). I just don't get why it happens only when the engine is hot.

I made a video of it running cold and then running hot. The gas spills out from the top hole.

Happy New Year! Tomorrow is another ... year.

http://www.mktx.com/packard/12312006Carb.mp4

Posted on: 12/31 15:28
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Re: The Duchess Project: 1940 Super 8 Convertible Sedan
#10
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That's Very helpful, Dave. Thanks so much. I do have a pressure gauge.

I was going to do a pressure check on the fuel going to the filter with my sister's help pressing the starter with the ignition off.

Also, shouldn't that fuel filter be completely full when the engine is running?
Should those air bubbles be present?

I RARELY run the electric fuel pump, unless I have vapor lock, but I turned it on to see if I wasn't getting enough fuel, but of course it over flowed.

The floats should stop gas coming into the carb and prevent that overflow, right?

Anyway, not anxious to remove the top of the carb. It was rebuilt by Daytona, but they didn't set the floats correctly and the car would stall out as soon as it had a load. They fixed it, but I wonder if it's a problem float. Not sure how hard it is to correct. I will work on the other issues in the meantime and report results.

Thanks again.

Posted on: 12/31 12:39
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