IMHO it looks like Cadillac finally got it right with this one. The origami thing is toned down... no more flat planes, some subtle curving is thrown in. This design looks world-class. It doesn't look like a Chevy ...it looks expensive. Let's hope they don't show it with the ridiculous bright chrome wheels and junk. If fit and finish (no more orange peel paint job?) are good, this would be a winner in Europe as well.


<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/?action=view¤t=cadillac_srx_2010_new_5.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/cadillac_srx_2010_new_5.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Agreed: The Delta is odd... elegant but odd. It does show great attention to detail and creativity, but It's strange that they chose the difficult hatchback body style.

In my town it has turned out to be the taxi cab of choice ... but apparently sales have been good.

I wonder how it would stack up against a Sebring or a Dodge Whatever:

<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/?action=view¤t=lancia-delta_36.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/lancia-delta_36.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/?action=view¤t=lancia-delta_38.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/lancia-delta_38.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

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Odd and Otter.....

<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/?action=view¤t=big_delta27.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/big_delta27.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

"FIAT doesn't sell a big sedan other than the Quattroporte for a simple reason - there is almost no demand for one in the markets they currently play in."

In Italy alone, the bigger Mercedes, Audis and BMWs do very well. There is a lot of wealth and desire for prestige cars. It's a segment that has never been developed by Fiat as it should have been. They did have the Lancia Thema and then the Kappa... they just did not keep up with the competition.

http://foto.officecar.it/42/4278478_1.jpg

Today, Lancia does make the very beautiful Delta which is to be the base for a bigger sedan. We will see.

http://www.lancianewdelta.it/

Please tell us of the last car from Fiat that you have inspected. Thanks.

In the meantime... just a few of the cars from Fiat that even Audi owners dream of owning:

<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/?action=view¤t=fiat.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/fiat.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

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"Fiat SPA doesn't have a four door sedan in its line up that offers the performance of the CTS-V. I happen to like the styling of the CTS."

Personally I'd take any Alfa 159 over the CTS even if the CTS has more power etc. The CTS is just too tacky looking. That particular kind of flashiness looks down-market to me. I'd certainly even take the up-coming LaCrosse over the CTS.

However: big important sedans are Fiat's real weakness. And that is also a segment that Chrysler needs to develope as well.

Alfa intends to come out with a big sedan... but I doubt that it will happen soon:

<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/?action=view¤t=0806_01_z2010_alfa_romeo_169front_t.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/0806_01_z2010_alfa_romeo_169front_t.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Fiat is a privately owned company and does not recieve subsidies from the government although it will certainly benefit from government contracts and other "favours".

You must consider that in 2004 Fiat was considered all but dead... while it has been given no subsidies by the Italian government, it was given a 2 billion dollar penalty from GM: a move that helped finance Fiats recovery, and added to GM's financial woes. Quite ironic.

The government here does of course have socialized medicine and other social perks, so that burden is taken off of businesses. And from time to time the gov offers stimulous to car buyers like the following:

AutomotiveNews April 2, 2009 - Excerpts:

Scrapping subsidies boost sales in Europe, draw U.S. attention

Germany and Italy are the latest countries to report March increases in car sales helped by government scrapping incentives.

In Germany, registrations increased 40 percent last month. In Italy, a 0.24 percent rise in registrations was celebrated because it was the first increase in a year. France's auto association, the CCFA, has already reported an 8.1 percent rise in registrations in March compared with the same month in 2008.

The European boom from scrapping incentives is raising eyebrows in the U.S., where President Obama and Congress are pushing for similar measures. But the legislation has stalled while lawmakers -- and competing factions in the auto industry -- debate whether the incentive should only cover the purchase of American-made vehicles. Foreign automakers contend all new vehicle purchases in the U.S. should be covered by the incentive.

Germany's car importers association, the VDIK, today said car sales in Europe's biggest market increased to about 401,000 last month.

The German government's car-scrapping program prompted the VDIK to forecast double-digit percentage growth in new registrations in the first quarter. Berlin has now extended until the end of year the 1.5 billion euro ($1.98 billion) program it launched in February that pays owners 2,500 euros to trade in cars that are more than 9 years old for newer, more fuel-efficient models.

"The decision to top up funds for the (bonus scheme) came just in time given that the money originally approved has run out," VDIK head Volker Lange said.

New-car sales in Germany rose 21.5 percent to 277,740 in February, the first full month that the scrapping incentive was available.

In Italy, industry watchers said a 0.24 percent in March registrations to 214,218 was a sign that the government's scrapping subsidy is working. Car orders in March rose 36 percent on the year to 276,000, said Italy's foreign carmakers association, UNRAE.

"An orders portfolio so high will certainly have positive effects on registrations in April," UNRAE said, noting that, unlike last year, the Easter holidays this year fall in April, lowering the number of working days.

Research group Promotor expects that the full effect of the country's incentive program will be seen when new-car sales data is released for April and May.

Fiat saw its Italian sales for its three brands increase 6.1 percent to 69,882 units in March, Reuters calculations showed. Fiat's market share in Italy rose to 32.62 percent compared with 30.83 percent in March 2008. The group's orders in March rose 59 percent, a company source said.

The French car manufacturers association, CCFA, said an 8.1 percent rise in last month's registrations to 204,095 unit was helped by the government's scrapping bonus and environmental taxes aimed at promoting sales of fuel-efficient cars. CCFA President Xavier Fels estimated that 30 percent to 40 percent of all sales in March benefited from French government scrapping incentives.

In Spain, March new-car sales dropped 38.7 percent to 76,503, but were supported by the government's Plan Vive-2 scrapping incentive program, said the country's automaker association, Anfac.

France, Germany, Spain, Italy are among European countries whose governments are offering buyers incentives between 1,000 euros and 5,000 euros to swap old cars for new, less-polluting models. The United Kingdom is considering a similar scheme.

^ In these particular times and in the scheme of things a bad S&P rating means little.

Remember: although they are being considered, so far there has been no government handout to Fiat as there has been with GM & Chrysler. Despite debt, Fiat is considered to be a profitable company: GM & Chrysler aren't.

From Forbes:

Junk Status Could Help Fiat
"A downgrade of the firm should help the carmaker avoid taking on Chrysler's debt."

http://www.forbes.com/2009/04/01/chrysler-fiat-auto-markets-equity-sp.html

Please explain your point about market share.

First of all, 25 years ago, Italy and Europe in general did not have Japanese cars to contend with (neither did the US for that matter). The market is now full of brands that simply did not exist before. So naturally the pie is smaller. This is why the objective now is to go global and sell in other markets.

In the meantime Fiat's market share in Italy and Europe is growing after years of falling.

Please tell us how Chrysler and GMs market share has been doing.

Perhaps a better picture is not market share but overall sales and profitability.

At the moment Fiat (unbelivable as it seems) now sells more cars than the once mighty Chrysler. And it is profitable while Chrysler for all intents and purposes is bankrupt.

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Audi styling: we may all have our own personal tastes but my bet is that most will prefer the looks of an Audi to the current Cadillac... for me it is a question of refinement: the boy-racer looks of the Caddy are, IMHO, unrefined and clumsy... although certainly better than anything they've done in the last 30 years... and it is a nice achievement for GM: the car is a contender.

But Detroit handed the luxury car segment over to the Germans and the Japanese on a plate. Detroit needs to make all-out luxury cars like the BMW 7 series, the Mercedes S class, and the Lexus LS.

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The Caddy styling still has a whiff of GM econo-car circa 1985. Honestly: which looks more sophisticated? :

[<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/?action=view¤t=audi_a5_con_s_line_pack_4.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/audi_a5_con_s_line_pack_4.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

I finally saw a new Cadillac CTS a few weeks ago... parked on the street here in my town.

The paint job looked like it had been applied with a roller.

Anyway... as I said: besides the facts, what is important is the public's perception. If the Caddy is getting rave reviews, is it translating to the American public?

Are American Lexus, BMW and Audi owners giving up their cars for a Cadillac?

IMHO: No matter how good it is, Caddy's "bad-ass" bling-mobile styling will continue to keep it marginalized. BMW, Audi, Mercedes... the look... the aura... is refined, the Caddy has a comic-book style that's just a little gross.

Compare them to designer Bill Mitchell's elegant Cadillacs from 1963/64 and 1965/66... back when Cadillac ruled the earth.

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To illustrate my point... note the similarity of tone :

<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/?action=view¤t=31NewMercedesAdCampaign2-1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/31NewMercedesAdCampaign2-1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

"Sorry to say that I am no big fan of Fiat because of what I have seen in the past in the USA concerning Fiats lack of quality."

^ Uh.... like maybe 25 years ago?

The Times of London reviews the Alfa 159 (2006). Here are a few excerpts:

"The driving position is spot on, the dials look like they've come from a Swiss watch and the quality of the leather, especially if you have it in red, gives the impression that it costs Rolls-Royce money."

"But the engine, torquey, powerful and smooth though it may be, is not the best part of this car. That accolade goes to the steering. It's fast, sharp, more informative than the internet and more tactile than a freshly carved stone otter."

"The handling is also sweet and yet the ride isn't even slightly uncomfortable. Which means that the 159 drives and feels like no other car in its class. If you have even the faintest trace of petrol in your veins, if you are even on nodding terms with the concept of simple, good engineering, you should drive this car. Because it doesn't matter what you have now, you'll be smitten. I was."

"This is one of those cars that's demonstrably and appreciably better than any other mid-range four-door family saloon."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/jeremy_clarkson/article695347.ece

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Personally, I don't think the Alfa is up to BMW 3 and Audi standards, but it is a worthy contender in every way.

However, that being said, honestly, I don't think a sedan like this would translate well for the needs of most American drivers, but my point is that the Fiat of today is not that of 20 years ago... or even 5 years ago.

I think the current management is so sharp and exceptional, that my hopes are high. They have been able to deliver better products but most importantly they've been able to change the public's perception of the cars. You have to remember, that up until just a few years ago, Italian cars in Italy were considered very uncool. You wanted a German car, young people drove VW Golfs... and the entry level Peuguet coupes were also popular with young people. Professionals wanted a Mercedes or Audi... they did not want anything by Fiat.

Certainly German cars still maintain their high status... but now suddenly Fiats, Alfas and Lancias are cool too... suddenly young people and professionals want them... they are almost a fashion statement... they are hip... and that is a huge achievement. Oh and Maserati... remember those horrible BiTurbos? Now suddenly the Maserati has gone from being considered crass to being chic and elegant and even old-money here is driving them.

That for me is the work that GM and Chrysler must do: they must change the public's perception. It's great that the Buick LaCrosse is now at the top for durability... but will it become "the thing" to own?

I really don't know what your point is in all of this or why you brought up Fiat in the first place, into a discussion that was about Detroit, but ... well... OK....

Re: Fiat Sedici: please note that the article I posted clearly explains the Suzuki origins of the Sedici. I only posted to it (without comment BTW) to illustrate Fiat's involvement with 4 wheel drive in an SUV.

Fiat's new SUV will be this... to be introduced at the end of the year:

http://www.motorauthority.com/wp-content/uploads/Fiat/Bravo/SUV/BravoSUV.jpg

Fiat's Jeep-like 4x4 vehicle is the Iveco Campagnola introduced for 2009:

http://www.autoblog.it/post/15626/la-galleria-ufficiale-delliveco-campagnola

Iveco Campagnola web site (please click on "technical features" and read):http://www.campagnola.iveco.com/main_en.html

Iveco's "Massif 4x4":http://www.massif.iveco.com/

And you might be surprised to see Fiat's non-passenger 4x4s:

http://www.italiaspeed.com/2006/cars/other/iveco/11/investor_presentation_lingotto/niche_products.html

As you can see Fiat needs no Chrysler knowledge to build true four wheel drive vehicles. LOL.

It is no secret that the big prize for Fiat's involvement with Chrysler is the Jeep brand. It is really the only Chrysler brand that has cachet around the world. The name is an icon. It will be a great addition to Fiat's sterling brand names.... marques that still have romance and allure: Ferrari, Maserati, Alfa Romeo. Taking the Jeep brand and adding Fiat off-road technology will ensure Jeeps survival.

Hats off to the Challenger and Viper, but aside from perhaps them, no one is lusting after the Chrysler and Dodge brand names.

(BTW an aside: expect Italy's Ducati to announce buying another iconic American brand: Harley Davidson.)

Anyway, Chrysler/Fiat: as has been continually reported in the automotive and business press: it is Chrysler that is in the most needy situation:

"Fiat has been reborn with a knack for producing cool, small cars; its desire to return to the U.S. market after a 20-year break marks the best, perhaps only, hope for Chrysler."

"Documents released by the Obama administration show that Chrysler can't survive without merging with Fiat SpA."
http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/djf500/200903300015DOWJONESDJONLINE000005_FORTUNE5.htm

More (from the Associated Press) Chrysler CEO Nardelli speaking:

"Fiat would make available to us its entire product portfolio and powertrain technology, worldwide distribution capabilities for vehicles we produce today and synergies in the areas of purchasing and engineering, among others,"

http://www.suntimes.com/autos/news/1479314,AP031609

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BTW: something interesting from a BusinessWeek article in 2006 back when GM bought into Fiat:

"But now, Fiat's slow-moving restructuring suddenly seems to be getting serious traction, making GM's decision to divorce Fiat look like a $2 billion blunder. "

http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/jul2006/gb20060726_749437.htm

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Re: Fiat's market share: Fiat with a 60% market share in Italy in 2005? This figure is wrong. Please site your sources. In the meantime: under Marchionne's management the company is continually increasing it's market share at home and the rest of Europe. Some info about Fiat's smash sales success the 500:

http://cars.uk.msn.com/news/car_news_article.aspx?cp-documentid=6735029