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Board index » All Posts (Lee)




Re: 1956 Caribbean Production
#1
Home away from home
Home away from home

Leeedy
Quote:

BigKev wrote:
I'm not sure where the disconnect is here. I never said you and Roscoe didn't do any work, and nowhere did I even elude to that.

My point is, what happens when you and Roscoe have gone to the Great Car Show in the Sky? What happens if your house burns down tomorrow?

What are the plans to preserve those records for future reference? If there are plans in place, that's great, enough said.

I'm all about making as much Packard information freely available for folks to access, with no agenda attached. This was one of the reasons why folks like Carol Mauck asked me many years ago to take Fred's extensive Packard literature collection and make it available for folks to access. He didn't want it to end up in the landfill or at a museum where either no one knew it was there or they were charged to access it.

Too many rare pieces (aka Dad's old dusty Packard stuff) have been tossed out by family members who don't understand their informational value.

Hopefully, everyone puts in some type of effort, in their own way, for the betterment of the hobby. Some people will appreciate it; some people won't.


Totally understood. And great for the Maucks and altruism and philanthrophy. Good for them. But nobody said you did or didn't say what you've just stated. Nobody. So let's not beat an egg into a horse.

Only said that this stuff has indeed been preserved and individuals have indeed had the forethought to save it in the first place for people to argue about today. Before the internet. All of which is precisely why I started collecting and preserving the Packard stuff... and notes and memories decades ago. What I saved was not communal nor a group effort. It was my personal effort. Even if it is a bad thing today to get credit for what one has actually done on their own. Or that such individual efforts do not matter in the communal world of today– unless one is giving it all away to this or that, etc..etc.

I'm not "dad"... and watching stuff get tossed is certainly not a new phenomenon to me. Please. I was there when they were tossing out Packard stuff in Detroit. I had relatives who worked for Packard. I owned commercial property near the Grand Blvd. plant. My family had a store near the ConnerAvenue plant– which I watched both open and close. I had friends who actually worked on real Packards, including special ones... like the Balboa, the Request, the Panthers, and the Predictor. I actually knew this stuff.

Sharing the info? Over the years I have included inside stories, histories, photos and memories in The Packard Cormorant magazine, Hemmings Motor News, Special-Interest Autos magazine, Car Classics magazine, Popular Mechanics and more. Including a book I wrote. For the first time in history, I listed the actual Packard Pan Americans, their full history, how they got made, etc. etc. Showed photos no one had ever seen before. Facts no one ever wrote about before. Minimizing all this is fine, I guess. But my efforts and collections are not communal. And I should not be browbeat over what I decide or don't decide to do with my stuff.

No matter what anyone may imagine in my ability to envision, certainly there has been prior thought to preserving the history of this stuff. Including ... when I go to the great Packard graveyard in the sky. So. And again with all due respect, I have just a little clue here about saving the history and sharing it. I detest arguments– especially online. Thanks for the concern and passion.

Posted on: 4/4 15:37
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Re: 1956 Caribbean Production
#2
Home away from home
Home away from home

Leeedy
Quote:

BigKev wrote:
It would be good to get those records digitized at some point to preserve them for the future. Roscoe is only about 30 minutes from me.


Roscoe has his records and I have mine. With all due respect to Packard knowledge seekers of today, I've been at this for a lot of years. Yes, I know where Roscoe is located and I have been to his place several times. We visit fairly often on the phone and via emails. Please understand I've known Roscoe since the 1970s.

I have been collecting this stuff since the 1950s, back when nobody cared. Saved everything I could from Conner Avenue (my aunt worked for the guy who set the plant up). Started out putting everything Caribbean on 3 x 5 cards. Did this on my own. And started my own roster for Caribbeans in the 1970s and this ran, advertised world-wide for many years– even if nobody remembers today. My Caribbean Roster was always in Hemmings Motor News Almanac for decades. Today? Nobody can seem to remember... or even know about it. But this was long, long, long before anyone knew about digitalizing. Or the almighty internet.

This stuff has indeed been preserved– even if today's folks on the internet don't know about it. Love for all things Packard– including Caribbeans– has been going on a long, long time.

Things happen as the years go by and generations get replaced.




Click to see original Image in a new window

Posted on: 4/4 14:15
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Re: 1956 Caribbean Production
#3
Home away from home
Home away from home

Leeedy
Quote:

Kiff Rule wrote:
Morning all. I was pondering the 56 Caribbean production and did some guess-timating. I'd be curious to get any thoughts. Assuming that there are 263 Hard Tops, production began in Nov 1955 and ended June 25 1956 (8 months of production / 263), that would be approximately 33 cars built a month - acknowledging some ramping up the first month or so, looking at the cars produced each month - would it be safe to assume I could determine when my car was approximately made based upon that formula; in my case may/june.

In the absence of a build sheet (I'm told they received the archives with those records missing), I also see the dates stamped on the dashboard gauges with similar dates.

This forum is an invaluable source of facts, information and entertainment - even amidst some occasionally-spirited disagreement - it is always appreciated.


Your Caribbean MES hardtop was sold new out of the Philadelphia region. My buddy, the great Roscoe Stelford and myself have records on these cars. Yes, yours would have been in the last third of Caribbean hardtop production.

You can always look for casting dates on your engine, transmission and other parts. As for dates on the rears of instrument cluster gauges... those were made fairly well in advance so don't depend on dates stamped as a gospel guide there.

Also, remember that all 1956 Caribbeans (hardtops as well as convertibles) required extra steps in the assembly process at Conner Avenue. Therefore, none of these cars were a straight-through assembly like a Patrician or Four Hundred. Each was pulled from the normal line and shunted to a separate area where trim work was done for the tops. This slowed things down a bit more for all Caribbeans. Important thing to remember.

Posted on: 4/4 11:43
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Re: Auction: Royce G Kershaw Estate, Montgomery, AL, Weds. Feb. 21st, 2024
#4
Home away from home
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Leeedy
Quote:

ECAnthony wrote:
That engine is 288-cid with a front motor mount, so it is from 1948 to 1950.


Sorry to learn that Royce has passed. Years ago when I visited with Royce and Knox (the brothers) they had a 1956 Caribbean convertible and at least one other. At that time, they also owned a very unusual racing Duesenberg, "The Mormon Meteor" which has turned up at shows and in magazines of more recent years. I got to start it and sit in it.

Their business manager (a fellow named Mahoney) also had a 1956 Caribbean convertible that I got to drive. I understand that it was sold years ago.

Wondering what happened to all those other Caribbeans?

Hmmmmmm.

Posted on: 3/31 17:32
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Re: Packard Bikes
#5
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Leeedy
Great stuff... we also have numerous Toledo "Blue Streak Line" catalogues. Some are in magnificent color!

Posted on: 3/31 7:59
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Re: Assessment of 1955 Packard Caribbean via Artificial Intelligence.
#6
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Leeedy
Quote:

Don Shields wrote:
The Packard Club's roster of 1955 Packard Caribbean Convertibles has 258 cars registered. Known production serial numbers range from 1001 to 1499, yielding a total production of 500 for this model.


...And my personal Caribbean Roster has more. And I have actively been collecting data and info on these cars since at least the 1960s and rode in the very first 1956 Caribbean (a hand-built prototype driven by a Packard engineer) when new in 1955.

Of course ridiculous nonsense is expected to come out of asking AI. BUT... don't blame absurd statements of Packard "facts" and "history" solely on AI or whether the person making the enquiry is young OR old. Or being unfamiliar with the scope and operation of AI. Posing any question to infant AI as it is today is a crapshoot at best. However...

Try asking the be-all-know-all almighty "wikipedia" about Earle C. Anthony's Packard neon sign... or the one-off Packard Request, for examples. Last time I looked good 'ol wiki was blurting BS about how "several Packard Requests were left sitting on showroom floors, unsellable". Silly hallucination stuff worded as fact. And one can compare good 'ol wiki's oleo nonsense on Earle C. Anthony's Packard neon "history" to the factual story published in The Packard Cormorant magazine. Look it up. Few people do since few know the TPC story was ever published. Few are aware of the expertise in TPC magazine. And of course to go that far means one might actually have to do some real work and dig (OFF of the internet– the old way)... or (clutch the pearls!) actually buy the magazine! Heaven forbid!

On wiki... ANYBODY can make up and say anything at all... and get it passed off as fact. And if one goes to the trouble of getting to be a "wiki editor" and goes in and makes factual corrections, some moron can simply get themself also installed as a "wiki editor" and then change the correction BACK to the BS!!!!! Ask me how I know on this.

Whether AI or wik-I... the issue remains. From someone who ran computers back in the days of the great IBM "360" there was a saying we used back then that is still valid today with both wiki and AI: "Garbage in– garbage out."

Posted on: 3/27 15:26
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Re: Jean Marais' 1955 Caribbean and other French V8 Packards
#7
Home away from home
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Leeedy
Quote:

PP56FR wrote:
And two pics of a 1955 Clipper that I found in my archives that was for sale here several years ago, still wearing a 1955 license plate (so most likely its original license plate).
Notice the 0-20(0) kph speedometer.



My buddy in Sweden indeed has a 1955 Clipper in the same exterior colors, but not a red interior. Here we are in Stockholm a few years ago, preparing to go for a drive.



Click to see original Image in a new window

Posted on: 3/27 15:01
 Top 


Re: Rarest Car Options?
#8
Home away from home
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Leeedy
Quote:

Pete '56 wrote:
According to my 1987 Autumn Cormorant, one and only one '56 Caribbean Convertible was delivered with factory seat belts. This car was #5699-1021 delivered to Earl C. Anthony as his demonstrator. Car was all white on the outside and also had factory air installed.


This is just plain not true. Whenever was published in that issue of The Cormorant (and I have not looked back in mine) was almost certainly based off of a factory order list. NOT on which cars actually got delivered or dealer-added with the seatbelts when new!

Factory order lists are notoriously erroneous in terms of actual history of a given vehicle. I have looked at too many cars over the years to know better. And there is a 1956 Caribbean hardtop that is sitting this very minute out in the desert in SoCal ... rotting with factory seatbelts. And I knew this car since the 1970s. Last time I saw the car, the driver's left-hand belt was carelessly left dangling out on the bare ground below the car. Poor Caribbean!

MOST Packard 1955-1956 factory seatbelts were actually installed either at distributors or dealers. So factory order lists for this accessory are almost meaningless. There were several Caribbeans delivered NEW to customers ... equipped with factory seatbelts. Not sure why this has become such a mystery today.

As for retractors on seatbelts, this does not make them necessarily so new. Retractors were accessories to accessories and became popular in the early 1960s. J.C. Whitney and OEMs sold them too. My 1964 Oldsmobile Starfire convertible was ordered NEW with deluxe seatbelts that came from the factory with the same spring-loaded retractors you could buy at auto parts stores. I also installed a set of retractors on my 1963 Ford Galaxie XL convertible (ordered new with seatbelts).

Here is my 1964 Oldsmobile Starfire convertible...
Click to see original Image in a new window


Here is a 1956 Caribbean that was equipped with factory seatbelts. It was last seen sitting abandoned in the California desert and being barbarianized....

Click to see original Image in a new window

Posted on: 3/21 20:32
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Re: 47 Packard Speedster
#9
Home away from home
Home away from home

Leeedy
Quote:

r1lark wrote:
Maybe a scam? Are the pictures on Craigslist the same ones as on bringatrailer?



Oohhhhhhhh... my eyes are hurting again!!!!! This is what happens when originality no longer matters and fantasy is everything. The present generation of folks have no idea what is original. And what is just plain absurd. So thingies get unleashed as purposely-obscure mysteries. And off to auction they go! Ready to be flipped more times than a flapjack pancake on a hot griddle.

So. Nowwww we know what happened with at least one of those leftover Auburn boat-tail kits that no one could give away back in the 1970s. They just doubled-down on the same tail lights and blended the rest into a (gulp!) Packard. Betting that raked-back cut-off windshield is about as steady as a bobble-head doll mounted on Jello. Gotta love the modern GM-look power window switches too. And on and on and on. You'd think that if they went this far, they should have included golf-bag doors on the quarters.

Surely (I hope) no one is taking any of this "Packard" silliness seriously? Really?

As for Rita Hayworth... I have photos taken of Rita and myself standing together in Newport Beach, California in the 1970s. Rita was no "platinum blonde"... but she certainly was a redhead. At the very least, you might get away with calling Miss Hayworth a "strawberry blonde..." but certainly not a "platinum blonde."

Posted on: 3/16 23:21
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Re: Wheel Well Paint Color 56 Caribbean
#10
Home away from home
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Leeedy
Scroll back to my previous post for additional original photos on this matter...

Posted on: 3/11 23:44
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