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Board index » All Posts (STempleton)




Re: Head is off on 1931 Packard with poor compression
#1
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Stephen Templeton
We've decided to go with the new valves, both intake and exhaust. Although they are a bit loose, given the sticky valve problem with this engine and lack of oil pressure lubrication in the valve guides, the extra clearance will likely help us. Terry is lapping in the valves to the seats. As the engine deck has been cleaned up, an old weld repair is evident and appears to be intact. We pulled the anterior rockers/cam rollers, and except for a few old weld repairs, they appear just fine, without much wear. I don't think we're going to pull the rear rocker/rollers since we'd have to remove the exhaust down pipe to get them out. Finally, the head has been repainted and looks good.

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Posted on: 8/5 8:33
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Re: Detroit Model 51 carburetor - massive fuel leak
#2
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Stephen Templeton
Just received my completely rebuilt model 51 Detroit Lubricator carburetor back from Scott Henningsen- pure carburetor art! As noted in the prior post, it turns out mine was a mishmash of Cadillac and Packard carburetor parts. Scott has remanufactured parts for the model 51, and it is beautiful. Looking forward to installing after valve work is complete.

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Posted on: 8/1 22:10
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Re: 1931 Intake and Exhaust valve/valve guide clearances?
#3
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Stephen Templeton
I finally found official documentation of the valve stem/guide clearance! I ordered the 1931 Service letters from the Packard club (1931, Volume 5, No. 1-24) and it included an extensive table of specs- Packard Eight Standard Sizes and Adjustments. See the attached photo, it includes data from 1st-7th series. I’m pretty sure the 8th series is not much changed from the 7th series. INTAKE minimum .0025”, EXHAUST minimum .0045”.

Also, we noticed that the valve keeper/key slot in the stem of the new valves from Max Merritt and Kanter did not match the original Packard valves from my engine. It turns out that the moved the valve keeper/key slot 1/8” up the stem to increase the spring tension. This change began with engine number 191125 for the 840- my engine number is 189598, so it make sense that my original Packard valves have a different valve key/keeper slot location. I wonder if they made this change in response to valves sticking, to increase the spring load to help close the valves (43 lbs with old, and 73 lbs with new)

@Greenfield- yes, we can get matching guides for the .340 new valves, but I’m not keen on removing the cylinder block to remove old guides and press in new ones. Apparently this can possibly be done without removing the block, but my mechanic is wary.

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Posted on: 7/24 15:01
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Re: 1931 Intake and Exhaust valve/valve guide clearances?
#4
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Stephen Templeton
Turns out that the valves from Max Merritt and Kanter are supplied by Egge- my mechanic spoke with Egge and they only use a .340 inch stem blanks and don’t have access to a thicker stem blank. Our current thoughts are that we will reuse the exhaust valves after cleaning them up, and then we’ll probably use the thinner .340 intake valves. Since the 3 intake valve in cylinders 2, 4 and 6 were sticking, perhaps having more clearance won’t be a bad thing. Also, since the valves are only splash lubricated- not under oil pressure, I don’t think we’ll be burning through lots of oil with the larger valve/guide clearance. Thoughts?

Posted on: 7/22 11:00
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1931 Intake and Exhaust valve/valve guide clearances?
#5
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Just can't stay away

Stephen Templeton
As we are putting the 1931 Packard back together, we need to replace the intake valves, and could clean up the exhaust valves, but would like to use new exhaust valves if we can obtain them.

I just received 8 intake valves from Kanter and 8 exhaust valves from Max Merritt, but the valve stem dIameter of the new valves are more narrow than the original Packard valves which have the Packard insignia on the valve head surface.

Original worn out Packard valve stem diameter: .347
New valve stem diameter: .340

The original valves fit very well, so the new valves seem quite loose. Does anyone know the correct, factory clearance of valves and valve guides for an 840? The valve guides are not worn, and we’d like to avoid replacing the guides.

Thanks!

Posted on: 7/21 7:58
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Re: Detroit Model 51 carburetor - massive fuel leak
#6
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Stephen Templeton
I've sent the carburetor to Scott Henningsen (pac-carbs.com) to have it rebuilt, and it turns out that it is a hodgepodge of various parts- from a 1934 V8 Cadillac (float bowl, accelerator pump and vanes) and 1932 Packard (upper throttle throat). He has all the correct parts and will rebuild a correct 1931 carb for a super 8 engine. He has a 1931 Packard (840 I think) and will test it out on his car to make sure it is tuned correctly. Apparently, he sees hybrid/hodgepodge carburetors with some frequency since parts availability was limited in the past.

Posted on: 7/15 15:28
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Re: Head is off on 1931 Packard with poor compression
#7
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Stephen Templeton
Tim- thanks for your comments. Fortunately, I have a very good deal of documentation regarding the Nethercutt restoration, including the attached engine and trans specs. They apparently upgraded the trans to an early 1932 version. The car was shown at Pebble Beach in 1961, then sold to Bill Harrah in 1963 as part of a 15 car package where it remained until 1988 when it was sold to Chris Bock in 1988. Gene Perkins did a lot to improve the car and he as the next owner.

This was apparently the third complete restoration that Nethercutt did, so it is one of his earlier cars. The original engine block was cracked but was replaced with the appropriate 840 block from the same year. I’ve attached some of the Nethercutt engine restoration photos. You mentioned Turnquist- I’ve added an old letter from him to Nethercutt as well.

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Posted on: 7/14 12:51
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Re: Head is off on 1931 Packard with poor compression
#8
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away

Stephen Templeton
Most valves weren't this corroded. Yes, the rust is worrisome, but no sign of coolant leak. Haven't drained the oil yet, but will be on the lookout for water. These were the original valves from the 1959-61 engine restoration that JB Nethercutt did- likely with one grind since then. While not many miles were put on the car, there have been long periods when the car just sat- since 1961.

Posted on: 7/14 10:01
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Re: Head is off on 1931 Packard with poor compression
#9
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away

Stephen Templeton
Valves are out - all the intake valves are super thin and many were very corroded. Quick clean up of all but three to demonstrate the condition of the valves. Seats also cleaned up pretty good. No wonder I had zero compression in several cylinders. Love the Packard logo on the valve heads.

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Posted on: 7/13 18:42
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Re: Exhaust Maniflold
#10
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Stephen Templeton
It wasn't cheap, but worth it in my opinion. Let me check my file, and I'll PM you.

Posted on: 7/13 8:58
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