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Board index » All Posts (tedwar9)




Re: 1941 Clipper Identity
#1
Not too shy to talk
Not too shy to talk

TimE
Quote:

Owen_Dyneto wrote:
Based on the type font and material (tinned steel), your patent plate is with almost total certainty an original.

Thanks for the numbers. And all your numbers appear consistent with each other.

Unfortunately, many dealers failed to stamp the plate with their identification and delivery date.


Thank you for verifying what I believed to be an original matching car. I had my doubts about the patent plate because the number matched the Briggs number, but I see that it could match as per the information in the new decoder. I do wish that the dealer would have stamped the plate, too late now.

Posted on: 3/1 8:06
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Re: 1941 Clipper Identity
#2
Not too shy to talk
Not too shy to talk

TimE
Quote:

BigKev wrote:
You can also look at the casting date on your block. That should give you a rough idea that your car was probably assembled a few weeks after that.


I will have to take a look for the casting date, just for fun.

Posted on: 3/1 8:02
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1941 Clipper Identity
#3
Not too shy to talk
Not too shy to talk

TimE
So I came across a post on here about the relationship between thief-proof numbers, engine numbers, Briggs numbers, and patent plate numbers that sparked my interest. I believe someone named Owen was collecting data for a database and it inspired me to take a look at all these numbers on my 41’ Clipper. What I found seemed a little “off” to me in respect to production volume and elapsed time. Hopefully someone here can help me interpret what I’m seeing about my car.

The patent plate is stamped with 1401-18144 and nothing else, it appears to possibly be original or an older repro since it is on steel and some of the silk screening is still visible. The Briggs plate also has this exact number and is original looking. The title to the car is from Pennsylvania and shows this same number as the VIN with an original title date of 6/15/41. The engine number is D416239C and fits nicely with the late build of VIN, so I believe it to be original. What I find to be “off” is that from what I can see 41’ Clipper production or sales began in April of that year and my car was titled in June. So given the time-frame and sequence number means that Packard would have built 269 cars per day, seems like a lot. The thief-proof number on the car is 618286, just incase this helps.

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Posted on: 2/26 21:28
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Re: Simple solution for tunes in the Packard
#4
Not too shy to talk
Not too shy to talk

TimE
A few years ago I had a 1938 Buick with the tube radio and I came across a schematic that showed how to install a 3.5mm switched audio jack inline with the the detector tube circuit(I think detector). I performed the modification while I was re-capping the radio and it worked awesome. I was able to plug in an iPod and hear modern music through the original radio. What made it especially fun for me was downloading period radio shows and music for car shows. The jack allowed the input cable to be removed, restoring AM reception. I plan to do this same modification on my 41' Clipper radio when I re-cap it. I'll try to find the schematic and post it here.

Posted on: 1/27 14:36
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Re: 1937 Fuel Gauge Question
#5
Not too shy to talk
Not too shy to talk

TimE
I had a similar issue with the gauge in my 41' and it ended up being a broken wire on for one of the gauge windings. If you check resistance values of the gauge you will most likely find the issue. I was able to repair my gauge with some solder, a steady hand, and a ton of patience. The circled area is where I had to perform the repair.

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Posted on: 1/26 15:35
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Re: Manual Transmission Clicking Noise
#6
Not too shy to talk
Not too shy to talk

TimE
Quote:

PackardDon wrote:
Admittedly I did not carefully read the details here but once I had an odd noise coming from the driveline of my 1952 Henney-Packard which had just had the transmission rebuilt. Typically I do my own work of that nature but that one time there was a rush and, as I was living in an apartment with only a carport, I deferred to a nearby shop. It turned out that they had put the clutch plate in upside down (or backwards, depending on how you look at it) so that its little springs were lightly touching the flywheel bolt heads! Put in the proper direction, the noise was gone!


How frustrating that must have been for you. I have always done my own work and for that exact reason, plus I enjoy it most times.

Posted on: 1/26 7:34
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Re: Manual Transmission Clicking Noise
#7
Not too shy to talk
Not too shy to talk

TimE
Quote:

DavidPackard wrote:
TimE: I too commend you on the depth of your investigation. I word of caution however would be the faith you might have in your cage speed calculations in that the radial load on the bearing has a significant impact on the actual cage speed, along with lubrication specifics.

I’ve been reading all of my old ‘Motor’s Manuals’ but haven’t found an easy answer . . . sorry. Actually the trouble shooting guides in the transmissions section were dropped sometime in the late ‘40s or early ‘50s.

Now for a round of ‘twenty questions’:

Is the car equipped with an ‘Econo-Drive’, aka overdrive?

May I assume the first/reverse slider rotates only when the output shaft is rotating, but in your idle case the slider was not rotating, yet the ticking was present? There was no mention whether the noise was present in reverse. I guess I assumed when you used the term ‘idle’; one the car was not moving, two the transmission was in neutral, and finally the first/reverse slider was not rotating? If this is TRUE then everything was rotating except for the first/reverse slider and the output shaft. And then when the clutch was depressed all of the rotation was brought to rest just as you said.


When the clutch is depressed, and the vehicle speed is zero, then all elements within the transmission should come to rest eventually . . . perhaps a few seconds with warm oil, and the normal warm idle speed. The next diagnostic test might be; establish a forward speed in first, and confirm the ticking noise is present. Then with the car still rolling depress the clutch, and note whether the noise is present. If the car is equipped with an overdrive let’s conduct this test twice, once with the OD mechanically enabled (cable IN), and again with the OD mechanically disabled (cable OUT). Considering the noise is also present in second gear this test should be repeated in that gear also. That would make a total of four test cases. To Chris’ point, the purpose of this test sequence would be to isolate whether the noise is generated by the transmission. If the ticking is still there when the car is moving forward (clutch depressed) and it stops only when you brake to a stop.

I’m thinking about the countershaft (aka cluster gear) thrust bearings (bronze washers), and whether the entire cluster gear has excessive fore/aft motion. It looks like there would be an axial force, proportional to torque, on the cluster gear except when the transmission is in third gear. I’m trying to make a connection between cluster gear axial position and the ticking. I haven’t found the service limits on the cluster gear clearance.

Finally, if the ticking is interference between a rotating part and the stationary case then you might find magnetic wear metal in the oil. Same would be TRUE if the 2nd gear cluster and the 1st gear main were interfering. I believe there are drain plugs with a built-in magnetics that might help determine if a gear to gear, or a gear to case interference is causing the noise.

That’s all I’ve got tonight . . . By the way try to catch the TV news tonight or tomorrow. You should see a segment about snow in the northern sections of Phoenix today. We had a bit, but not a lot, of graupel where I live.

dp



David,

I agree that the bearing cage fault frequency seems to be an unlikely culprit in this scenario. I would describe the noise to be a factor of approximately .43 to engine RPM.

To answer your questions, the car is not equipped with overdrive, so that can be eliminated. You are correct in assuming that the 1st/reverse sliding gear is only active when the driving shaft is in motion, so it can be eliminated because the noise is present with the car stationary. I have confirmed that the noise is present in first while the the vehicle is in motion and sounds to be about the same frequency as when stationary. I know the noise is present when the transmission is in 2nd, clutch depressed, and vehicle is coasting. I have not verified if the noise is present with the transmission in neutral, vehicle coasting, and clutch depressed or released and will try this tonight. Also, I have not noticed the noise in reverse and will have to double check.

You bring up an interesting point in regard to the countershaft thrust clearance. During my inspection with the transmission disassembled I found the front thrust washer to have some wear that appeared a little odd, but the surface was still smooth. It looked as though there may have been some debris imbedded at some point, but it cleaned up well and I reused it. The countershaft rotates at a factor of .65 to engine RPM, however I have not considered axial movement against the spring-loaded rear thrust surface. I will have to take a look and see if the helical pattern of the gear would even cause rearward movement or simply keep the countershaft towards the front thrust surface.

Thank you for your thoughts, it helps to hear other ideas simply talk it through with another person. Good luck with the snow, It has been in the 80's here is South Florida.

Tim

Posted on: 1/26 7:33
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Re: Manual Transmission Clicking Noise
#8
Not too shy to talk
Not too shy to talk

TimE
Chris,

Thank you for your input and thoughts on the noise. The reason that I’m almost convinced that it’s in the transmission is that I can hear the noise frequency decrease at idle, when the clutch pedal is depressed. As if I can hear the transmission internals slowing to a stop. However, internal inspection of the transmission does not reveal any faults. I spent nearly 20 years as a transmission/drivetrain specialist for Ford and always dreaded cars with manual transmission noises for this exact reason.

Posted on: 1/25 19:16
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Re: Manual Transmission Clicking Noise
#9
Not too shy to talk
Not too shy to talk

TimE
John,

I wish it was that cut and dry, but the throw-out bearing does not make contact with the pressure plate fingers because of a small spring attached to the clutch shaft bearing retainer.

Tim

Posted on: 1/25 19:09
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Re: Manual Transmission Clicking Noise
#10
Not too shy to talk
Not too shy to talk

TimE
Thank you Bill,

The noise actually becomes faster (higher frequency) when coasting with the transmission in 2nd and clutch depressed. This is evident when downshifting from 3rd to 2nd. However, I can't recall if the noise is present with the shifter in neutral and coasting.

Thanks,

Tim

Posted on: 1/25 15:31
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