Hopefully we can get this fellow who says he is "restoring" a '38 Twelve to tell us more about it. For example, what was its condition when purchase...how far along is he in its "restoration"....

It would certainly be helpful if someone in here who knows the difference in carbs. can explain in at least some detail why a EE-14 carb. would not work on a Packard Twelve.

re : vapor lock
I must respectfully disagree with some of the posters regarding vapor lock - what it is, and how to stop it.
A review of Packard tech. and engineering publications, beginning in the early 1930's, confirms they were well aware of the problem. To get surer starts in cold weather, refiners were helping with ever higher Ried Vapor Pressures (translation...easier to get the fuel to vaporize at ever lower temps). By the early 1930's, gasoline became MUCH more likely to boil over and become a vapor in the fuel lines than fuels of even a few years earlier. Solution? (apparently not known or even thought of by Packard's tech. folks... ? ? ) A electric fuel pump mounted as low as and as close to the gas tank as possible. This puts all the gas in the lines under pressure (as oppose to suction) virtually eliminating vapor lock.

Hi Clipper
Good point - you may be right as to "tying down" a coil spring on the later models. I NEVER took a post-Safety-Flex suspension apart, so I have NO clue how to do it safely.

Again, assuming you follow the proceedure I was taught, meaning, DO NOT DISCONNECT THE REAR LOWER TORQUE ARM BALL, the spring cannot go ANYWHERE - impossible!

Again, this instruction ONLY applies to so called "Safety-Flex" suspensions on the Jr. Packards starting in '35 production, and continuing thru '41. And the "big" or "Senior" Packards from '37 to '42.

Dont listen to me on anything later - listen to Clipper !

INSTALLING 'SAFTEY-FLEX' COIL SPRINGS cont:

In anwer to your question as to how to "arm" and "dis-arm" those dangerous monsters safely, if you don't have the weight of a complete car to help compress them as you raise and lower the car.

You got me ! I have NO clue ! I was trained at a Packard dealership almost SIXTY YEARS AGO ! I apologize - I should have explained that was how the FACTORY tech. rep. taught the dealers how to do it. So of course they were dealing with complete "ready for the road" cars.

I could only make a wild guess and presume you lay some strong timbers or steel plate across the frame where the engine would eventually be, and load it up with weight approximating a complete car.

See - even I do not "know it all" !

p f h

Because there are so many "experts" in here who get so ugly when their nonsence is corrected, I rarely come back in here.

But when I see something that is clearly LIFE THREATENING, I will try and help out.

You do NOT try and service a "Safty-Flex" front end with a spring compressor. There is ONLY one "right" and "safe" way to get those coils in and out safely. You stand an excellent chance of getting KILLED using ANY kind of spring compressor. Even if you found a strong enough one, there would be no way to get em up into the "spring towers".

The way to safely remove and install the front coil springs on a Safety-Flex front end is simple. DO IT THE WAY THE FACTORY DID. Very simple. DIS-ARM those monsters by LEAVING THEM ALONE - YOU DONT TRY AND COMPRESS THEM.

For those of you re-building a Saftey-Flex equipped Packard correctly, you already know how to do it - you bought your front-end bushings from STEELE, and read the instructions that came with them ( I am presuming they still send out the instructions I wrote for them some thirty years ago ).

Here's the "drill" to SAFELY remove and install the coil springs from a "Safety-Flex" equipped Packard - again - DO NOT ATTEMPT TO RESTRAIN THE SPRINGS WITH ANYTHING

TO REMOVE COIL SPRINGS

1) Jack up the car, remove the front brake backing plates.
2) LOWER the still "armed" suspension onto two 2 x 4's, (one each side) so that the bottom of the knuckles bear the weight of the car.
3) remove the bolts that retain the "lower inner" and "upper outer" control arm bushings. (the still "armed" spring is retained and still harmless, restrained by the un-bolted but still contained lower-inner portion of the lower control arm AND the "torque arm ball" at the rear portion of the front suspension (DO NOT TAKE THAT REAR BALL OFF UNTIL ALL THE STEPS BELOW ARE COMPLETE, AND THE SPRING "dis-armed").
3) JACK the car up. As you jack the car up, the spring gradually "dis-arms", as the main lower control arms with the bushings start moving outboard from the center frame support. When you get the car high enough, the springs will be completely dis-armed, and harmless, and the lower control arms will simply fall away from the center frame support without ANY dangerous spring load.

TO INSTALL SAFETY FLEX FRONT SPRINGS.

1) Get the car up high enough to slide the complete lower suspension with the dis-armed springs, under the car.
2) Lift the inner ends of the lower control arms up so that they are able to start sliding into position on the center frame support, as you lower the car, which, of course, will gradually "arm" the springs.
3) When the inner portions of the control arm bushings get where they belong, you can slide the retaining bolts back into them ( may take a alignment/drift pin to "center" them - dont damage the threads on the bolts!).
4) when the weight of the car has fully armed the springs, the outer upper control arm will alighn up to be bolted back into position.

HOW MUCH TO SPEND FIXING UP AN OLD CAR

True, Ed spent a lot of money fixing up that '38 Twelve. As some have pointed out, WAY more than it is worth. WAY more than he could have bought one on the open market (probably not anywhere NEAR in that well-done condition tho).

All this goes to show the truth of that well-proven saying in the old car hobby - it is always cheaper to buy a really nice car in top shape, than to try and re-habilitate some beat up mess that had been abused.

That is not exactly late news. I have in front of me a book by my old friend (and now very dead) Robert J Gottlieb. Let me waste a bit of your time with some background, to put all this in perspective.

For those of you who do not know, or are too young to remember, the classic car hobby got started at the same time, separately on the west and east coasts - Turnquist and his buddies in New Jersey/New York, and Gottlieb and his buddies in So. Calif.

Bob Gottlieb's 1952 book "CLASSIC CARS AND ANTIQUES" was probably a MAJOR factor in getting the "big old" car movement going (at that time, as now, HCCA couldnt have cared less about "modern" (meaning post 1920) cars, and the AACA classified the big super-luxury post WWI pre WWII) cars as tow vehicles!

In Bob's book, there is a picture of my '34 Super Eight. A few pages away, he tells us "it is always less expensive over-all to purchase a classic that is in good condition, rather than try and restore someone else's heartache....for example (Bob continues), why purchase a classic needing work for seventy five dollars, when a mint original can be had for $150....".

See - nothing changes - only a few decimal points !

"INCORRECT DASH"

You wanna be 'picky" about the "incorrect dash"?

O.K..let me show you "picky". The dash was CORRECT in EVERY respect, down to the beautifully done lettering inside the VERY complex dash instrument faces.

YOU used the term "incorrect dash" in a non-authentic manner! Shame on you for exposing yourself to correction by "picky" guys like me! You need to get your use of language properly restored by someone who knows authenticity...!

Seriously, again, the dash was QUITE correct EXCEPT that the paint on the sheet metal surface was done in the traditional Packard style - not the very subtle silver/aluminum unique in 1938 "seniors". (funny side-note. I THINK, but cannot prove, that silver paint on the '38 Seniors, was left over from the '36 "120" dash....!)

For those of you who have not met Ed - be assured he is a VERY nice, unassuming, down-to-earth guy. He is the kind of guy, like me, who knows he will NEVER get tired of the car. Thus, as he and I both agree, our Twelves are WORTHLESS. Because we arent going to sell them. Whatever money we throw at them is down the toilet.

Ed has a dollar or two more in his Twelve than I have in mine. Like Ed, I did odd jobs to get thru college. Worked as a truck mechanic at night. I was luckier than Ed, in that I COULD afford, in 1955, to buy a half-way decent Twelve. It is still worthless to me from a monetary standpoint.

Guys - some of us simply dont CARE what it costs to get our Packards to the point where they are what we want. If I had Ed's money, I'd do the same thing he did - have em fix my Twelve so it was like it came from the factory. EXCEPT for the dash. I LIKE that wood-graining.

So - guys, soon as we discover oil on my property, tell Joseph to clean out a place in his shop for mine. And make sure he can find that guy who did the wood-graining!

And be SURE if I bother to have my car judged, I will expect they dont go taking points off for my dash looking like the way it COULD have come from 1580 E. Grand Blvd. Oh yeah, when Joseph does mine, he WILL be directed to 1) use the correct diameter fender "welt" 2) put the rubber bumpers that serve as "hood anti ratlers" on the OUTside of the fender lip, and 3) grind off the ends of the running board rubber. THAT is where he lost points. NOT because of the dash paint ! Be ASSURED his car got judged fairly.

RE: "wood-grained" dash on '38 Senior cars

Here's what REALLY happened, and the background.

The owner came to the restoration shop, and saw that the dash was painted the correct VERY subtle metallic silver.

He told his restorer he wanted a WOODGRAINED dash. The restorer told him "but it is all done". The owner said "what man has made, man can un-do...I LIKE wood-graining".

That's the bottom line. Ed KNOWS what he likes, and it is HIS car.

I was not a judge at that event, but if I was, I would not take off for "incorrect" paint. Here's why.

It is 1938. One of us walks into a Packard dealership with a fat checking account, and says, "I am ready to place an order for a Packard Twelve. I want GREEN closine hub-caps, and I want my dash painted "wood-grained" like my 1937, 1936, 1935, 1934, 1933, and 1932 etc. etc. Packards".

Does ANYONE in here have ANY question about how FAST the factory would get an order to "wood-grain" a '38 dash.

For those of you who are STILL wondering what this is all about, 1938 was the ONLY year that Packard painted the dash sheet-metal that VERY subtle silver/aluminum. The 1939 Twelves were wood-grained in the traditional Packard style.

There are a couple of exceptions - during production at custom body builders, some of the dashes were damaged, so they are painted black. At least one OPEN '38 Packard Twelve came out of 1580 Grand Blvd. with a dash of body color.

Because the over-all attempt to make the car perfectly authentic was so good, the judges did not think it appropriate to knock the car too far down on the two details some of us spotted that were NOT correct - someone mounted the rubber "cushions" for the "hood anti rattlers" on the WRONG side of the fender lip, and, oh yes, the rear fender "welting" was not quite the correct diameter. And the INCREDIBLY well-done running board rubber didn't have the edges properly ground off.

Now, with all those glaring faults, anyone want to adopt me and give me a nice allowance so I can have mine done that well ?

RE : getting to the big PACKARD'S INTERNATIONAL "Packard Show" next (not this coming) SATURDAY Jan. 30th. morning.

yeah - hard to understand what the hotel was thinking of!

If, after getting off the freeway, and heading west on THE CITY DRIVE, for about the equiv. of a block or so, you fail to turn right at the first light (CHAPMAN) you will find you are driving alongside the hotel property, with no way to get into the public areas. One "service entrance" for hotel employees and deliveries, with a dinky little sign that says 'HOTEL ENTRANCE ON CHAPMAN' ! And no place to turn around without going many many blocks out of your way !

P.S. dont forget - the following morning (Sun 31st) is the big "Packard Parts Swap Meet", probably the largest anywhere.

PACKARD MEET REMINDER ! AND A WARNING !

The Sat. Jan 30 show in the morning hours typically has the most Packards of every condition and description, than you are likely to see anywhere else in the WORLD !

The Sun. 31st Swap Meet in the morning hours has row after row of stuff for just about anything, including several big lit. collectors selling and buying.

Here's the warning !

For some goofy reason, the DoubleTree Hotel has its address listed as on THE CITY DRIVE. "You cant get there from here".

Getting off the freeway, you want to go WEST on THE CITY DRIVE but ONLY to the first block/stop-light. That's CHAPMAN.

Turn RIGHT on CHAPMAN and go down about 3/4 of a block. The Hotel is on your LEFT. There is a big parking lot for a large shopping center (look for the yellow BEST BUY sign) on the right. You can park there - parking in the hotel is pricey and often filled (especially since their rear parking lot will be full of some pretty slick Packards !)

Please be careful in So. Calif. traffic ! They are NUTS !