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Board index » All Posts (Rusty_1999)




Re: 1953 Packard Patrician 327 9 main upgrades or engine swap?
#1
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Rusty_1999
Packard Don, I will have to check, but i believe i have a compressor bracket at least for these cars. If not i do know for sure where i can find one, there is an old Cadillac salvage yard within 2 miles of my house and oddly enough the owner has a collection of 51-56 Packard parts i have snooped through before. I believe when i talked to him last he said he had some A/C parts. Either the parts are for a 51-54 or for that 56 Patrician he has in his yard(that car has been cut off from the rear but would make a good truck conversion, it was fully optioned too).

Posted on: 2020/12/26 14:30
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Re: 1953 Packard Patrician 327 9 main upgrades or engine swap?
#2
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Rusty_1999
Hey @JW, thankyou for your advice, i really am considering doing disk brakes at least on the front, but who knows, drums work pretty well.

Also i definitely want to do a 4 speed conversion the more i think about it, it would be semi-correct and it would be all packard, i just have to find one. Do you have any information as to what all i will need to find to do this? Any old forums? I'll search around for any information i can find!

On the side of the 12 Volt system conversion, i am going to have the generator rebuilt and converted to put out 12 volts, i could do a Chevy 1 wire but i like the idea more of keeping a stock appearance, you guys have me there!

I also have determined whatever engine i end up putting in whether another 9 main or a 5 main, i will be using my 4 barrel manifold and i will be putting something like Holley Sniper EFI on it instead. I figure with how well those units flow i should pick up a little HP but mostly an increase in MPG.

Definitely doing a vintage air ac system, although i do believe i may have(or know where to get) an original A/C pump and bracket.

On the side of wheels and tires, definitely going with the COKER 3.25 inch radial white walls. But does anyone know if the alignment stud on the drums can be just done away with? I'm thinking of doing wire wheels or a set of steel wheels? Any advice or things to look out for here would be great!

I should apologize though, i feel i may have come off as rude in one of my responses earlier. So i would like to take this time to apologize.

Also, does anyone have any information or links to info on a performance cam? May be a long shot here, but i feel like someone somewhere probably has one laying around? Nothing big and aggressive but i certainly would be excited to know about one or at least get the specs and have one commissioned.

Also, i do think i will try to do a Paxton or McCullough supercharger assuming i can find one! Not wanting to build a hot rod, or accelerate really fast, but give her a real good edge, plus i plan to haul a period correct camper behind me on long trips, i figure this would really help!

Posted on: 2020/12/26 14:09
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Re: 1953 Packard Patrician 327 9 main upgrades or engine swap?
#3
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Rusty_1999
Thank you, i did not realize there was a link attached to the names.

Posted on: 2020/12/25 17:45
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Re: 1953 Packard Patrician 327 9 main upgrades or engine swap?
#4
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Rusty_1999
Hey @PackardDon, i believe i found you classified at this link here. https://www.packardimperial.com/catego ... ssifieddetails.php?ID=108

I will be contacting you sometime this next week hopefully about this engine maybe and what all it might need. How might i email you or contact you about that engine? the classified website is a little confusing? Also, was the only difference between the 5 and 9 main the 4 barrel manifold?

58L8134
This forum has actually been a lot of help already, i found an old thread about some old speed parts and various designs.

Posted on: 2020/12/25 14:10
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Re: 1953 Packard Patrician 327 9 main upgrades or engine swap?
#5
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Rusty_1999
If i may inquire about that 9 main engine you have, what condition is it in?

Posted on: 2020/12/24 14:49
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Re: 1953 Packard Patrician 327 9 main upgrades or engine swap?
#6
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Rusty_1999
I am afraid I will not be doing that. There comes a time when only so many automobiles can be kept original. There will come a point when one day you will not be able to drive them anymore as they were originally designed. One day, there will be no OEM original parts, one day there will be no aftermarket to support a niche car group. People of my age have no interest keeping a car original if it means we cannot drive it as we intend. Whether that be across the country or down a drag strip, or even on a circuit track, or just to car shows. When this car was bought by its original owners, they had no intention of worrying about that, they drove it every day. I want to drive it every day too.

Why do you think engine swaps are so common, the original drive train cannot keep up. Maybe a car from later in the 50's with a 3 speed and a more powerful and efficient engine.

How many Packard owners will take their car across country and daily drive it? I bet only a select few and i am willing to bet 75% of them have done engine swaps.

Sheesh, i would have at least thought that me wanting to keep the original engine but modify it to be THE BEST VERSION of itself possible would at least garner some respect.

And to do that it must be brought into the 21st century. No amount of work done to it to factory specs will allow it to keep up, that was fine for back in the day, especially considering the national speed limit.

But it's abysmal gas mileage, and antiquated 2 speed transmission cannot keep up.

You can only keep so many cars original.

AND OF THOSE ORIGINAL CARS HOW MANY CAN BE DRIVEN WITHOUT WORRY OR BE COMFORTABLY BE TAKEN CROSS COUNTRY.

Original sucks in every way possible if it means i cannot enjoy driving my car.

I want to enjoy driving my Packard in the 21st century and i want to enjoy it to the fullest.

Why do you think engine swaps are so common, the original drive trains cannot keep up. Maybe a car from later in the 50's with a 3 speed and a more powerful and efficient engine.

How many Packard owners will take their car across country and daily drive it? I bet only a select few and i am willing to bet 75% of them have done engine swaps, or have at least changed something about the drive train

Sheesh, i would have at least thought, that me wanting to keep the original engine but modify it to be THE BEST VERSION of itself possible would at least garner some respect.

My Packard was Intended to be enjoyed by whomever owns it and wishes to drive it.

It was never Intended to be stuck in time with antiquated equipment. It was Intended to be DRIVEN! And being Intended to be DRIVEN has nothing to do with originality.

The past was cool and should be honored, but there does come a time when we must move on.

This is my prerogative- Should new Packard owners be shunned out of the community for wanting to upgrade their car? Should they be shunned for wanting to drive their car more? And in doing so they do some upgrades so they can, should they then be banned from owning a Packard simply because they desire to drive theirs?

Posted on: 2020/12/24 14:48
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1953 Packard Patrician 327 9 main upgrades or engine swap?
#7
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Rusty_1999
I am the owner of a 1953 Packard Patrician.

I want to make it clear this post is about keeping the original engine but doing modifications to modernize it.

From the factory my '53 came out with the rare 327 nine main Flathead straight eight. It has the Ultramatic 2-speed transmission, and what i believe to be a 3.54 geared rear end. The engine needs significant machining work due to the head being left off for years, and missing all of the valve train and lifters but it is very savable, just very expensive......



What i would like to do will be one of two things:



Either swap in place of the old engine a 3.7 liter v6 engine and 6 speed auto out of a 2011 mustang I have for parts for another car.

Or Rebuild the original engine and trans and probably spend thousands.



Now, I understand many will hearken me to swap engines or not; but hear me out. As rare and unique as Packards are, as well as the high quality of craftsmanship put into them, especially a Flathead straight 8 with 9 main bearings, it almost seems wrong to swap the engine out. Plus there is the added headache of doing the engine swap due to mounting the engine in the engine bay(Packard mounted the 327 at the very front and the engine is 4 feet long), and the wiring mess the car may become especially since very few people do 3.7 swaps as of yet.



And before someone says it. YES, i could do an LS swap, but... I got the 3.7 for free, I bought the car it is in for 900 dollars and got 1500 dollars in parts from it to fix my 2010 mustang so the motor is basically free and has 90k miles or less. Plus there has been an LS swap done already on a 53 clipper sedan. It looked great, but I'm in the mood to do something different.



Plus most LS motors factory make 270hp and 320lbs vs the 3.7 v6 which makes 315hp, and 300lbs of torque, and weighs 200 pounds less and has a 6-speed vs the majority of LS engine with a 4l60 4 speed. It weighes less, is smaller and makes the same-ish power.



(Keep in mind the factory engine and trans weigh 1100 pounds on their own so swapping would make the car weigh around 3500lbs vs 4200lbs and really scoot down the road.)



Alright enough with the preliminaries, lets get onto the point of my post here.



If I do decide to keep the ORIGINAL ENGINE and rebuild it there are various things I would like to do to modernize it and I am open to suggestions or any useful information about these engines. Especially anything from the old guys who use to race these engines back in the day. What were the tricks?



Firstly I would like to put a modern automatic transmission up against the engine. Maybe a th400 with a gear vendors overdrive to make it a 6 speed? Or maybe the 700R4 or a Ford AOD. I would rebuild the 2 speed but its incredibly expensive, meticulous, and I want more than the factory estimated 15 mpg highway. I plan to drive my car everywhere and take it over 100k miles at least.



Second, I figure part of the issue with the car only getting 15 mpg factory is the 3.54 rear end. They did this because of the 2 speed trans I assume. The motor factory makes 180 hp, 300 lbs of torque and the car only weighs 4200 lbs, it doesn't struggle to move like other cars of its time.



I have a ford 9-inch laying around but if anyone knows anything about these old Packard rear ends and where I might come across a lower gears set for one such as a 3.23 i would really appreciate it. If not i appreciate any recommendations on what to do with the 9-inch instead.



I really only want to hit the 20 mpg mark. But if it gets better then HECK YEA!



Third and MOST IMPORTANT. If i am not able to change the above two that will be fine in the end, but i would like to change this one.

I would like to do multiple things to the engine itself. I would like to hire a shop to polish and potentially port the engine to really free up some mileage and power, and I would like to commission a custom intake and exhaust manifold for it as well. Does anyone have any suggestions on who to call? I do not care for price, I don't have much money but I will save and spend it if I choose this route. Money is no object, only a means to an end.



On the topic of the intake and exhaust, I would like to either do a dual 2 barrel or another single 4 barrel setup like factory. But I will be using an EFI system like Sniper from Holley or Fast.

I want to use EFI because I would like to turbo charge the engine. Nothing major, i just want to hit either the 300 hp. mark or make 400 lbs of torque.I'm sure it can make that power!!! The engine has a light compression ratio of 8.7:1 and I feel like even the factory rods and pistons should be able to handle 5-8 lbs of boost. I'll probably only try to run about 6 at most. I've seen many supercharged but I'm just a bit different in my methods.

But on that subject, does anyone have any recommendations? How to go about it? Any good fabricators who like the challenge of an older engine with modern parts?



If possible i would also want to do a cam upgrade but no one is going to machine me an almost 4ft long camshaft. Besides, I don't believe these engines had very large cam profile. Correct me if I am wrong here.



I still want this engine to run whisper quite as it did factory, but with more whoosh and to give it a competitive edge on today's roads. I feel like it would be a marvel and a really fun challenge as well as quite the spectacle.



Yes I understand a flat head is not the most efficient engine, but I want to see what it has left in it, give it a bit of a modern edge and see how it performs with a few modern twists.



On a side note, I do remember that at one time someone had converted a 5-main variation of this engine to OHV by machining two 4.7 dodge heads together. Does anyone know who they are? It was on an old forum and I could not get any replies, but in their defense the forum was significantly antiquated. If anyone could contact them I would like to ask a lot of questions, who knows maybe I'll do it too?



Also i do know that the next year with the 359 engines they offered an aluminum head. They were prone to cracking and are rare but they do fit, and I wouldn't mind finding one.



All comments are welcome, but please be respectful of others and if correcting someone please do not be rude.



This post assumes entirely that i keep the original engine in place but modernize it!



Attached is a photo of my car taken with a Black & White DSLR.



I will be going with the patina look and just clear coat the original paint for those who may be wondering!

Attach file:



jpg  (348.71 KB)
224326_5fe4bde40c178.jpg 1920X1440 px

Posted on: 2020/12/24 11:12
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