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Board index » All Posts (DavidPackard)




Re: Ammeter
#1
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DavidPackard
Jimmyk

In the ’54 shop manual, section XXI, there is mention of 900 rpm for the Delco equipment, and 920 rpm for Autolite equipped cars. Those values are the expectations for the reverse current relay (aka cut-out relay) to close, meaning the generator is ‘on-line’. I would expect ‘high idle’ is a term that means the system is operating with the generator ‘on-line’, plus a few hundred rpm of margin. You can also search for this rpm, because once the relay is closed, the system is up to temperature, and the battery is fully charged (or close to it), the voltage regulator should be in the voltage regulation mode. That is additional rpm does not result in an increase in voltage. My bet is 1200 rpm will do. A word of caution, in that most of the generator/regulator voltage specifications are for a system at normal operating temperature.

dp

Posted on: Yesterday 22:14
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Re: Door Seals
#2
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DavidPackard
53 Cavalier

This is a bit ‘off-subject’ but I fixed a door rattling problem by changed the door seals on a ’99 Suburban, and as expected the doors became harder to latch. Seems the strikers on those cars are nonadjustable, and the seal plays a key role in keeping the doors both weather tight and rattle-free. If the striker on the Packard is adjustable, then perhaps you can accommodate the ‘hard to close’ tendency with a minor striker adjustment, and keep-up with minor adjustments as the seals compress with age. After a year in the Arizona heat the doors are still a bit difficult to latch . . . that’s a good thing, however I would advise it might take the seals a while to compress back to carbonite. After you change the seals, you really don’t want the doors to close as easy as they do today.

dp

Posted on: 5/23 19:37
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Re: Sticky speedometer needle
#3
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DavidPackard
Thanks for the oil recommendations guys.

I spent a good part of the day looking at videos on how speedometers work, and how to service/repair them. One of those was for a Smiths unit, which featured an animated assembly of what looked like 3D CAD renderings of the individual parts . . . quite interesting. I also looked into the oils available for clocks and such, one of which was a liquid that evaporated and left a Teflon dry film behind for lubrication. I think I’ll postpone the speedometer task for a week to stock-up on these specialty lubes, which are bulk liquids, not aerosol cans. After a few of the videos I believe I’ve narrowed the areas that could produce a sticking needle as the only symptom. I appreciate Bob J’s comment on manually moving the needle to 50 mph to confirm the fault . . . it will surely be used to indicate whether the servicing has a chance of being successful. I’ll post a follow-up.

dp

Posted on: 5/17 21:55
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Sticky speedometer needle
#4
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DavidPackard
Seems the speedometer needle in my ’54 has decided to be especially fond of 50 mph. It will stick at that value until I come to a complete stop, so the near term plan is to add a bit of lube to the needle’s support bearing/bushing. A search of the web on this subject revealed that a lot of people recommend 3 in 1, or mineral (baby) oil. I’ve got those covered as well as typical multi-viscosity engine oils, gear oils, high sulfur cutting oil, ATF, jack oil, tap magic, and a limited supply of Panther pee.

I’ve found quite a bit of service information about lubricating the cable, but not so much for the speedometer head. The lubrication section of the ’54 shop manual recommends 2-3 drops of 10W engine oil at 10K miles or 1 year interval at the cable flange. I suspect this is for the bushing at the cable interface, not the needle. Is there a consensus on which lubricant should be used for the speedometer needle support bearings/bushings?

dp

Posted on: 5/17 0:30
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Re: 1948 Station sedan, 288 temperature of engine head.
#5
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DavidPackard
For that year Packard the fuel level and oil pressure gauges will rest in the low position with the car shut-off. The coolant temperature gauge is opposite in that it will rest on the high position with the car shut-off. Search for “King Seeley” in the forums for all of the mysteries and details of those gauges. Your condition may simply be a modern coolant temperature sending unit has been installed. There have been some recent forum discussions on the use of sending units from 40’s Ford products.

dp

Posted on: 5/16 17:33
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Re: Headroom/Seat Height 2200 Series
#6
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DavidPackard
I concur with Ross’s observation. My ’54 front seat was elevated with one inch rough cut white oak pieces, one block for each side. The bottom side of these blocks even had rotary cutter cut-outs to clear some ‘bumps’ in the floor pan. I don’t know exactly who installed these, but the attention to detail suggests it was not their first rodeo. To facilitate some under seat non-OEM electrical equipment I replaced the previous blocks with 1 ½” units . . . red oak this time, darn ¼ sawn white oak would have been classier. I’m about 5’11’’ and find the elevated seat results in a comfortable/acceptable driving position. I still however find the seat cushion a bit soft. The condition of the cushion springs and the weight of the driver will surely alter the amount of lift required. Interestingly my ’48 does not have seat riser blocks and that seating position is equally OK, go figure. Todd if you think the seat needs to be elevated the solution back in the day was wooden blocks with longer bolts, however as Howard mentioned shims at the individual bolts seems to be an option for less aggressive shimming. I’ve also have the impression that shimming seat heights was quite common years ago, meaning if a sale of a new car was contingent on the height of the front seat I’m sure each dealer would accommodate the customer needs.

dp

Posted on: 5/16 17:19
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Re: 48-50 Bimetal Senders Retrofit Project
#7
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DavidPackard
I did a second round of K-S instrument testing on my ’48.

The purpose of this round of testing was to investigate whether the instrument panel gauges are essentially the same electrically. Beginning with the coolant temperature gauge a potentiometer was used in lieu of the sending unit. This potentiometer was adjusted to deflect the needle to mid-span. This test was repeated several times resulting in 30.8 ohm, 0.142 amp, and 36.1 ohm, 0.126 amp data sets. The second potentiometer setting was then applied to the oil pressure gauge which resulted in a needle deflection to approximately 45% of full scale (just under 40 psi). The resistance was then reduced until the current was 0.146 amp, and the needle indicated mid-scale (40 psi exactly). Results of the first test of the coolant temperature gauge indicated a heightened degree of non-linearity (needle position versus current) at mid-span. Seems that some type of test protocol will need to be created to explore whether hysteresis is part of resistance/needle position repeatability.

For both gauges the potentiometer was adjusted to produce equal voltage drop between the panel instrument and the simulated sending unit. The coolant temperature gauge appeared to have 14 ohms resistance, while the oil pressure gauge resistance appeared to be 18 ohms. In both cases that would be the resistance of the bi-metal heating coil. No other locations of voltage drop were either identified or investigated.

Back to the possibility of gauge hysteresis or sticking; during this and the first test the engine was not running, nor was the car in motion. Back in the days of aircraft equipped with ‘round gauges’ the instrument panels were frequently equipped with small out of balance electric motors intended to slightly vibrate the panel. Part of my training was to tap a gauge face twice before a reading was logged . . . not so much for digital readouts, but surely for round gauges. The out of balance motor was intended to forgo the need to tap individual gauge faces of an aircraft instrument panel.

My current conclusion is that the K-S panel gauges are equivalent when evaluated in needle deflection measured from ‘cold state’ versus electrical current (perhaps watts).

If anyone has a Patent Number for a 48-50 Packard K-S gauge, I’ll search for the original application for same. The technical description section of those applications normally contain insight on the uniqueness of the design features.

dp

Posted on: 5/12 0:18
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Re: 48-50 Bimetal Senders Retrofit Project
#8
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DavidPackard
HPH

I do not know for sure that all 3 senders have the same signaling scheme. I’m leaning toward ‘yes’, but only from a position of minimum production costs.

For the 22nd and 23rd series if the gauge pegs up-scale then the logic is identical. I believe the oil pressure gauge pegs down-scale, so the logic is not identical, but could be simply reversed. Selecting down-scale for the oil pressure could be an application of displaying the most alarming indication if an instrument error occurs.

Backing-up a bit . . . Howard dug-out the referenced Service Counselor. This same test procedure is in the ’54 manual (likely applicable 51-54). While the procedure seems to be the same the test results are for the applicable models for that manual.

Back to the production costs: If I was in the business of making Packard instrument gauges I would surely use the same heaters across the board, so your question about electrically identical is likely well founded. The sweep of the gauges seem to be the same, so the deflection of the bimetal is likely similar. The oil pressure logic change could be handled by reverse winding of the bimetal, or using the same bimetal with a linkage change. For the oil pressure sending unit ZERO pressure should have the greatest resistance (low/no heating current). I do not know if that sending unit operates via pulse width modulation, or variable resistance via diaphragm deflection. Again, if I was making the gauges I would lean to using the pulse width technique . . . however the oil pressure ‘sending unit’ is subjected to engine temperature, so that would need to be accommodated in the calibration.

dp

Posted on: 5/3 19:46
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Re: 48-50 Bimetal Senders Retrofit Project
#9
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DavidPackard
HPH

The data applies to the temperature gauge only. I was trying to get more than 3 calibration points, so I estimated a 10-point scheme. Zero is COLD, 100 is HOT.

The nonlinear characteristic may be the age of the test article alone. I could be a bit of roughness in the 'normal operating' positions.

Howard

I believe the gauge will function OK with steady state current levels, albeit lower than the peak value in the pulse width modulated scheme. I'm trying to hold the bimetal at a particular temperature, and I can get there with a steady heat input, or on/off cycles of, when on, excessive heat input . . . much like heating a home in the mild weather.

IIRC doesn’t the service data indicate that a fuel sending unit may be used to trouble-shoot either the fuel level or coolant temperature instruments? If my memory hasn’t turned to mush it would then be a question of resistor values and calibration. I’ll sign-up for if I ever have my fuel tank removed I will repeat the ‘fixed resistor’ test on that instrument.

dp

Posted on: 5/3 16:53
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Re: 48-50 Bimetal Senders Retrofit Project
#10
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DavidPackard
HPH

Here’s the data I recorded on my ’48. The test set-up featured a rheostat/potentiometer in lieu of the cylinder head sensor. What I didn’t record, but would likely be a second order effect, was the ambient air temperature. I think I also had a battery charger hooked up just in case the voltage regulator output was dependent on the input voltage.

dp

Attach file:


pdf 48TemperatureGauge.pdf Size: 415.35 KB; Hits: 26

Posted on: 5/3 13:27
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