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Board index » All Posts (JKowFam)




Re: How to Rebuild a Pre-War Engine?
#1
Not too shy to talk
Not too shy to talk

JKowFam
Thanks all for the insights and information. I think the first step would be a full restoration of the block casting, for the reasons mentioned and because it was abandoned for so long. In the meantime, I look forward to starting the research phase and gathering all the info I can.

Posted on: 2021/9/5 13:12
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How to Rebuild a Pre-War Engine?
#2
Not too shy to talk
Not too shy to talk

JKowFam
Good afternoon everybody,

Does anyone have advice to offer about the basics of rebuilding early, pre-war engines? For those who might remember, this is related to the straight 6 flathead that was recovered from the 115C prototype in 2015. I don't know how long it will take, but I have an idea to make the engine run again some day. I have to believe that the details like torque specs, lubricants and substitutions is almost endless and hard to find. Any insights are much appreciated. Thank you.

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Posted on: 2021/9/4 16:50
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Re: Remains of a 1937 prototype?
#3
Not too shy to talk
Not too shy to talk

JKowFam
And now for that update on the car:

After I got the engine extracted and transported home a couple months later, I was able to break it down into its individual parts. Things like the head studs and the inside of the head itself were a little worse for wear after 60 years of exposure. But overall this was easier than I thought; particularly after some fun eBay hunts for old tools based on advice from this Forum. The pistons were frozen solid, and had to be beat out with a piece of wood and 4-pound hammer. The lower engine was a pleasant surprise. There was still oil in the crankcase after all those years, and virtually no rust in there. All the connectors came off with conventional means and no extraneous effort. This was pretty amazing considering that the oil fill tube had been exposed for years, and also because of the mystery I found inside.

The connecting rod to the #4 cylinder was bent--a perfect bulge out and back in. All I can think of is that something (stump or rock) struck the oil pan and interfered with the crank while that cylinder was on its power stroke. It is unclear whether this was during the service life of the car, or if it stopped the engine dead on that final day when it was put out to pasture. According to accepted family history, the car was driven into the woods and they simply shut it off. Since everyone involved with the car has now passed on, it is impossible to say for sure. Yes, the oil pan looked pretty banged up when we extracted the engine. But we really didn't notice, since the car had been sitting in the dirt for six decades. And--just maybe--the engine might have slipped its chains and fell into the mud like a big pancake one time (smile). At any rate, the oil pan was dented and may even have been pierced when it was struck. But it was not so bad that it lost all its oil or filled with dirt over the years. It is interesting to note that the thermostat was missing too. Perhaps it failed and my great-grandfather didn't want to bother replacing it. There was also an amazing amount of gunk in the upper engine (around the valve train) that I would liken to black toothpaste. The first theory was that water had infiltrated the crank, displaced the oil, and it congealed in the upper block. But given the lack of rust on the entombed crank, my brother-in-law has theorized that this was "normal" deposits of old SAE 30 oil prior to detergents...particularly in the absence of a thermostat, which may mean the engine had a hard time getting up to operating temperature.

As for the car itself, there is very little left. We knew going in that we were going to break some eggs to make this particular omelette. The front clips had to be torched, cut, or otherwise wrenched loose from the coach body, frame, inner fender walls, and the running boards (or what was left of them). The frame itself, at least the front end buried in sand for 60 years, was amazingly strong. The entire car had to be lifted out of the soil so we could work. As for the rest of the coach work, there was so little integrity left that crumpling was inevitable. Remember that this car still had wooden struts between the doors, which were practically dust. All in all, the body did not survive its encounter with the big Case IH tractor pictured.

The engine project was a great learning experience for me. I got a first-hand look at the anatomy of a pre-war, flathead six. In a way, the engine has served me well already by giving me that knowledge. For now, the block, head, crank and cam are essentially mothballed, resting in my shed. I kept most of the other parts as well, such as the bearing castings, tappets, generator, fuel pump, etc. I would love to see the engine run again, but the time and financial commitments of a young family make this impractical. Maybe some day!

Thanks again to everyone from the Forum and Motor City Packards for educating me and teaching me history about my great-grandfather and the Packard brand. I hope the future holds some other adventure together. Enjoy your week!

Posted on: 2017/1/31 7:29
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Re: Remains of a 1937 prototype?
#4
Not too shy to talk
Not too shy to talk

JKowFam
Thanks Roger for recapping what we learned about this car. I brought this story to the attention of the forum to increase the facts, definitely not to confound them. No bridge selling here. Who has to buy anything?

I will type up a quick update on the car/engine this weekend for those who are interested. Thanks!

Posted on: 2017/1/27 10:36
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Re: 37 Packard 115C Valve Train
#5
Not too shy to talk
Not too shy to talk

JKowFam
Thanks for the tip. This is another cool tool I had not seen before.
If this block ever goes in for refurbishing, I do expect some special machining. The exhaust/intake assembly studs were rotted away and broke immediately. I am guessing some TLC for an old block like this would run a couple thousand...? Anyone had to pay for that work before?

Posted on: 2015/10/29 11:10
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Re: 37 Packard 115C Valve Train
#6
Not too shy to talk
Not too shy to talk

JKowFam
Throughout this summer, almost everything on the block came apart very well. The break-down process on this engine was amazingly smooth for almost 80 year-old steel. Many of the bolts responded to wrenches without any special treatment. The big parts, such as the crank and cam, are now resting in Fluid Film, awaiting what I can learn via research over the course of the winter. The next major challenge is the head studs. These won't budge for anything...probably cooked into the block during its service life, not to mention 60 years of abandoned rust. I see several tips online, including magic lubricants and welding the nuts back on so you can apply torque. Does anyone here have a best practice tip for their flat head Packards?

Posted on: 2015/10/28 19:27
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Re: 37 Packard 115C Valve Train
#7
Not too shy to talk
Not too shy to talk

JKowFam
Great tips, thank you. The antique valve driver from eBay is working great. I only have three more guides to go, and I will take my measurements off these before they come out. The cam slipped out easily the day after I wrote about it. Must have been a lobe that was hitting in just the right spot. I still thought of a couple questions if anyone has time for some basic teaching this week: What is the definition of valve lash? Are all feeler gauge values talked about relative to the tappet and valve interface? I presume the hex nut on the tappet is the only place to adjust a valve to whatever you need. And why do some of my tappets have oil ports and some are solid (I kept them in order 1 thru 12)?

The challenge for this winter will be removing the numerous head studs that are very frozen in the block. They are so rusty I am afraid I will twist them in half before they ever back out, even after oiling and heating.

Posted on: 2015/8/23 6:31
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Re: 37 Packard 115C Valve Train
#8
Not too shy to talk
Not too shy to talk

JKowFam
Thanks for all the tips. My antique eBay valve driver is doing the trick so far, even on a broken one! I heard that new guides are tricky to install because if hit too hard they can squeeze in like an hourglass and become impassible. That might be a step I leave to a professional same as the block cleaning and resurfacing, assuming the project takes me to that point.

The upper engine suffered the worst from years of exposure. Does anyone know if this casting has separate valve seats that should be forced out, or am I only looking at the rusted rim of the cast block?

Posted on: 2015/8/21 15:07
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Re: 37 Packard 115C Valve Train
#9
Not too shy to talk
Not too shy to talk

JKowFam
This is great, thank you. I wasn't sure how many different type of guide drivers there were, but the KD815 you speak of seems to be very universal. I will try to do the eBay route on this. I didn't drill all of the valves, so it might just work. 4# hammer here, ready to go.
I removed the timing gear, key piece and thick washer and have about a half-inch of play on the cam laterally. But it won't pull out. I hear a metallic "tink" when I get it so far to the front. Could there be something else in the block holding it? Thanks again.

Posted on: 2015/8/15 19:45
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37 Packard 115C Valve Train
#10
Not too shy to talk
Not too shy to talk

JKowFam
Hello again,
I am looking for some guidance on breaking down the engine from the #1 Packard 6 previously discussed. I was able to get all 12 valve springs and valves out of the block, so the cam shaft and tappets spin freely. A couple of the valve guides broke upon removal of the valves. No big deal I said, I could hit or drill them out. I am having some trouble doing that, since the metal seams are hard to discern and I really don't have a good understanding of what this style of guide looks like anyway. Does anyone have a trick to this? Which way are they supposed to be driven out, top or bottom? Have I already made a mistake drilling them out to 1/2" (which I did)? Does the cam slide out from the front or back? Any lessons from experience would be very helpful. Thank you!

Posted on: 2015/8/15 12:14
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