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We have finished restoring a 1938 straight 8 Packard fire truck, with one issue remaining. We are having difficulty getting the shifting pattern figured out. We do know that R and 1st are opposite of the normal shifting pattern. Can anyone give us information? Thank you

Assuming the transmission is the standard Packard unit, the shift pattern follows the standard industry convention of the era for any 3-speed H-pattern cane shift. To the left - reverse is up towards the dash, 1st is down towards the seat. To the right - 2nd is up towards the dash, 3rd is down towards the seat.

Thanks for the info, but it is not standard. R is far right, with 1st far left.

Then obviously not a Packard transmission. Is the engine an Eight or a Super Eight (Super Eight = 2-piece block with distributor mounted on the cylinder head). I'd check the trans for a maker's name cast into it, Warner, Spicer, Fuller, etc. and a model number - from there it should be easy. Or just drive it, shouldn't be that hard to distinguish the gears. But most all heavier truck transmissions of that era were simple spur gear boxes so it might be non-synchro; be prepared to double-clutch to change gears.

I may be wrong but didn't the PMCC more or less abandon the truck market (some might add "prematurely") in the early 1920s? I do know that later they sold engines to be used by the White Motor Co. (Cleveland OH) for use in some of their smaller trucks. I believe that many of them were the outgoing six cylinder motors that had been modified from the last Packard taxi cabs in the last half of the 1940s. But the fact that this is a 1937 fire truck of some sort throws me. Could it be that a Packard engine was a ready substitute at some time for another brand that had failed?

It also sounds like the transmission is a heavy duty one, possibly a four speed with a "granny gear" first. We have some older Peterbilts (1987 era) with Fuller transmissions that have that creeper gear (a nice thing to have in a fire engine for unusual terrain situations) down and to the left of the typical H pattern. The same is true with several of our older GM TopKick trucks.

I agree with O-D that some careful searching and experimenting with the gear lever shouldn't hurt. Be prepared for gear noise and whine and double-clutching is most probably required. Learning that technique is the second hardest thing about driving an old car or truck with a manual transmission.

There's currently a YouTube video of a beautifully restored 1930 Duesenberg Phaeton being driven. The gear noise is substantial; enough to wake the neighbors. And the driver in this video apparently has not yet passed his test in double-clutching. At this point, it would be appropriate to point out that Packard introduced "silent (helical) gear transmissions" to the industry. Probably the best thing since sliced bread.

You are right, Packard did exit the truck business in 1923. A small number of fire engines were made by General based in part on the 1938 Packard Twelve and my thinking when this query appeared was perhaps something similar was done based on the Super 8, perhaps also by General. The 38 Twelve by General pictured below was photographed at the 1999 Centennial in Warren and I believe one other such unit still exists.

Unfortunately I never did examine it closely enough to see what else beyond the cab and engine might be of Packard origin but I suspect the underlying chassis is not Packard. Perhaps this is the type of fire engine the original poster is referring to, perhaps not.

I can understand folks calling this truck a Packard but actually it's a General.

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Were there not some kind of special firetruck transmission that had a sort of dual setup where selection could be made to drive the vehicle or output could be diverted to drive the pump at the different speeds. When did those come into being and is that a possibility for a truck that early and maybe the reason for a strange shift pattern.

Since Cmoore gives little to no detail about the fire truck i am more suspicous that it is packard PASSENGER CAR converted for fire fighting service. NOT an uncommon practice during the PREwar era. Quite common n fact.

Very likely the trans updated to some modern trans with side levers and the side lever linkage is incorrectly assembled.

Its probably a different transmission that's set up with a separate gear for a pto to run the water pump on the fire truck.

BDC, while that's possible it would take a bit of engineering as the Twelve, like the 320 and 385 engines, does not have a bell housing; rather, the bell housing is an integral cast part of the transmission itself. I think a split drive shaft with a frame-mounted disconnect & PTO is more likely. It would be nice to know, I'll try to make contact with the owner of the General.