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If the motor mount was replaced within the last 25 years it would not be sagged. My point is that one shouldn't be cursing E Grand Blvd for a problem that is really theirs.
It's just not productive and does nobody any good. Praise the light instead of cursing the darkness

I lifted the motor less then 1/4" to get the socket on the bolt. I still couldn't get the socket on the top right bolt. Not Packard's fault if indeed this is not their pump. I see no numbers on the pump after quick look. The motor number is 37 138CD correct according to info on this website.

There is probably all kinds of stuff wrong on this car, but I certainly won't blame myself because what I'm doing is trying to fix it and I'm doing the best I can. I don't really care who is to blame for sagging motor mounts.... It was simply a rant. But I know it wasn't me cause I didn't put them there and i didn't neglect them for decades.

I was simply ranting cause I was struggling with what to me should have been a very simple task on a car that was built well before technology that I find to be simple. A response was given and was a great bit of advice and was productive. No judgement... Just a simply answer and obvious acknowledgement of my frustration. I went back out and completed the task. End of story. To me what you posted wasn't productive other then identification of the pump.

I know you try to help.

Anyways..... Moving on.

I am in the process of converting my 115c to a pressurized recovery system, the pump you have is a 1939 six pump and can be bolted to the block using the three bolts the 1937 use. The fourth ( top left or drivers side in the USA) can either use a bolt with a thin hexagon with the nut facing forward, the second option is to drill and tap the block. If the pressure should be kept to either 4lbs or 7lbs then three bolt are sufficient.
I have recently made stainless steel backing plates to suit the water pumps.
Good luck with your 138cd a rare and lovely Packard.
Regards Pepe Packard

that was a VERY informative response! now we know exactly what is going on here. This car has indeed been converted to a pressurized system and uses a 4lb cap, I also have a 7lb spare cap that is in the trunk IIRC that came with the car.

mystery solved. 39 pump and most likely the block has been drilled because there was no nut on the top driver's side bolt and there is a hole in the block for the bolt to got through.

what is the hole above the D shaped water hole used for? that was filled with silicone on mine to block it off. but it looks like it servers some purpose as there is a matching hole on the block above the water distribution tube opening.

Henry, that is a small port hole to allow for some coolant circulation until the thermostat starts to open.

It looks like the conversion to the later sealed bearing pump used in pressurized systems from 1938 forward was done in a good workmanlike manner.

Also, the installation of the alternator was well done with changing the water pump pulley and the vibration damper pulley to accommodate the narrower drive belt used on the alternator.

All-in-all, I think these modifications were done properly.

It is common practice with these Packards to have to jack-up the front of an engine to access the lower water pump cap screws due to an aged and sagging motor mount. This would be a good time to install a new one. Stainless steel cap screws and copper washers with a good thread sealer for those that screw into a water jacket would be a good idea too.

Please keep us appraised of your progress in re-juvinating (sp.?) your grandfather's Packard.

Give Feltz my best.

(o[]o)

Thanks JW. I was looking at water pump repair kits at Max and there is no picture for what is included in the 38-42 kit, so I can't tell what all it takes to repair it. 40-42 has a picture and 35-37 does as well. the bearing on the 40-42 kit looks like what I would expect to see when taking this thing apart, but I did not see any external locking pin to hold the bearing in place. hopefully Terrill will rebuild it, if not i'll try my best on my own. it is noisy and leaks.

I will be sure to use proper gaskets and not block that hole off with silicone like they did.

yes the pulley are different to accept the smaller v belt. good eye. looks to be good there. no idea the shape of the balancer rubber (I'm assuming it has rubber bonding it together like on the 55) no problems from it that I can tell anyways.

I don't know if the fan is original or not either. its a 4 blade and fits fine...so I guess it really doesn't matter.

I will look to see if steel has rubber for the front mount.

I'm sure the trans mounts are toast as well.

stainless will be all over this motor when I get to replacing bolts. you know me and stainless.

yes I did know about the jacketed bolts...learned that on my 70 dart. thanks for the reminder!

do you think the backing plate is 39 as well? or is that 37? also noticed no small hole in the thermostat...I guess circulation hole would make up for that not being there?

Henry, again, it was common practice to drill a small hole in the thermostat to prevent an air lock when refilling the cooling system, and to allow for a small amount of coolant circulation until the stat opened. No need to drill a hole in the stat since there is a port in the block and pump for this purpose. But, doing so will do no harm. Enjoying your blog on this project.

You may want to consider posting all your adventures on the blog so we will have a complete history; especially valuable for future reference.

(o[]o)

I will post a link to this thread in the blog. thanks for the info!

My error, I was going from memory last night. The back plate is definitely 35-37, thus I don't understand that any additional holes had to be drilled and tapped to mount it.

The pump is a non-original construction/looking aftermarket pump, original has two bronze bushings and is the packing nut style.

I have no idea if a bolt hole was drilled. all the holes line up and nothing seems out of ordinary on the block. I was going off of what the member said about it being a 39 pump. I have no idea what a 39 pump looks like. maybe a look at one on the shelf of your parts warehouse would confirm.

I agree the backing plate looks stock 37, but maybe this is an upgraded aftermarket bearing pump that fits 37 and isn't actually from another year Packard as you say. a good reason why I can't find a Packard part number on it.

where should the Packard part number be stamped on this?

regardless I like that it is a bearing pump. hopefully Terrill will rebuild it...if not i'll be asking the venders to help me source a proper rebuild kit.