Merry Christmas and welcome to Packard Motor Car Information! If you're new here, please register for a free account.  
Login
Username:

Password:

Remember me



Lost Password?

Register now!
FAQ's
Main Menu
Recent Forum Topics
Who is Online
170 user(s) are online (163 user(s) are browsing Forums)

Members: 1
Guests: 169

wvsanta, more...
Helping out...
PackardInfo is a free resource for Packard Owners that is completely supported by user donations. If you can help out, that would be great!

Donate via PayPal
Video Content
Visit PackardInfo.com YouTube Playlist

Donate via PayPal



« 1 ... 13 14 15 (16) 17 18 19 ... 31 »

Re: DO NOT TRUST BTV
Home away from home
Home away from home

kens53clip
See User information
Pardon my ignorance but I do have a recently rebuilt BTV bought from Max Merritt and would like to know. I understand the advantage in having a single master cylinder versus a double master cylinder but presuming the single master cylinder works and just the power unit fails, is it like most power brake units in that you can brake but it takes a lot more force on the brake pedal? Or are the brakes totally gone?
Ken

Posted on: 2009/11/25 13:17
Ken
53 Clipper Deluxe 4 Dr.

Project Blog
 Top  Print   
 


Re: DO NOT TRUST BTV
Forum Ambassador
Forum Ambassador

Owen_Dyneto
See User information
Takes more pedal push, same as you'd have in a modern car without the engine running, once the vacuum reserve was depleted.

Posted on: 2009/11/25 13:20
 Top  Print   
 


Re: DO NOT TRUST BTV
Home away from home
Home away from home

kens53clip
See User information
Perhaps I should clarify my previous question by stating that I understand that a dual master cylinder can be safer than a single master cylinder as the dual has a backup brake system.

Posted on: 2009/11/25 13:31
Ken
53 Clipper Deluxe 4 Dr.

Project Blog
 Top  Print   
 


Re: DO NOT TRUST BTV
Home away from home
Home away from home

kens53clip
See User information
Thanks Owen!

Posted on: 2009/11/25 13:36
Ken
53 Clipper Deluxe 4 Dr.

Project Blog
 Top  Print   
 


Re: DO NOT TRUST BTV
Home away from home
Home away from home

Craig Hendrickson
See User information
Brians51 wrote:
Quote:
Craig as i suspected you are a Idiot. no red herring. Read forging failure.

<p>One would have to question who is the idiot here. Red herring in a message board context obviously means hijacking the thread, which is what you did. Randy Burger correctly started a new thread on the subject, which is what you should have done in the first place.</p>
<p>Learn message board protocol before talking smack.</p>
<p>Craig</p>

Posted on: 2009/11/25 14:03
Nuke them from orbit, it's the only way to be sure! Ellen Ripley "Aliens"
Time flies like an arrow. Frui
 Top  Print   
 


Re: DO NOT TRUST BTV
Home away from home
Home away from home

PackardV8
See User information
kens53 writes: "that a dual master cylinder can be safer than a single master cylinder as the dual has a backup brake system."

The dual or tandem MC as used on MOST modern day cars since late 60's does not incorporate any form of a "backup system". The dual is more precisely described as a SPLIT master cylinder where front part of cylinder operates REAR brakes and rear part of cylinder operates FRONT brakes. (some variations)

So the dual or tandem or split brake system is still dependent upon the power unit. It's not like there is somekind of 'backup system' that kicks in if the power unit itself fails.

There maybe somekind of such system in production and most likely in only very recent years of a 'back up' brake system. I don't know. But the Dual or tandem or split systems we speak of here or is generaly construed in the automotive world is as i have described above.

Posted on: 2009/11/25 15:35
VAPOR LOCK demystified: See paragraph SEVEN of PMCC documentaion as listed in post #11 of the following thread:f
packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7245
 Top  Print   
 


Re: DO NOT TRUST BTV
Forum Ambassador
Forum Ambassador

Mr.Pushbutton
See User information
A dual-ciruit MC has two chambers, each operating a "zone" of the car, one for the front that is large in capacity, and another for the rear, which is smaller in capacity than the front due to the needs/demands of the system. There is also an apportioning valve, which, in the event of a failure of the integrity of either front or back hydraulic circuit will toggle the valve over to only apply braking (hydraulic) pressure to the "good" remaining circuit. The most common cause of a problem would be a rusted hard line, or a cracked, aged flex line. I make it my business to know every inch of a vehicle's lines, the condition of the clyinders, the linings, and the master cylinder.
These days you can get the lines pre-bent in stainless steel, and new flex lines and cylinders, and it's a pretty simple swap-out.

Posted on: 2009/11/25 15:47
 Top  Print   
 


Re: DO NOT TRUST BTV
Home away from home
Home away from home

PackardV8
See User information
Let us consider all years that Packard and Clipper used the BTV. ALSO IN THOSE YEARS standard or manual brakes were offered.

Has there been as many manual brake failure reports as there has been BTV failure reports???? I don't think so.

SO, if the BTV failures are due to owner neglect or backyard bubba mechanics then why arn't the manual brake equiped cars also suffering at least in proprtional numbers????

Posted on: 2009/11/25 15:59
VAPOR LOCK demystified: See paragraph SEVEN of PMCC documentaion as listed in post #11 of the following thread:f
packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7245
 Top  Print   
 


Re: DO NOT TRUST BTV
Forum Ambassador
Forum Ambassador

HH56
See User information
Quote:
It just seems weird to me that nothing else can bolt onto the vacuum unit.

I believe there were only two mfgs that ever made the type design used on BTV--Bendix and Delco.

The master "cylinder" is not a conventional type. Instead of a piston with a cup which pushes fluid ahead of it, BTV is essentially an approx 3/4" closed tube filled with fluid which a rod or "piston" pushes into. The piston almost but never actually touches the sides of cylinder. It just displaces the fluid forcing it out to the brake cylinders. The stroke is direct and long & the rod, by squeezing the fluid out, obtains a considerable mechanical advantage. The volume is made up by length of stroke. The conventional cylinder has a fairly short stroke so needs a bigger diameter for the volume. Because of the diameter, it has to have a greater mechanical advantage to start with hence the 3, 4, or 6:1 mechanical ratio provided by pedal linkages. Therein lies the issue with just bolting something on.

I believe the failure mode of the BTV is in the sealing of the tube or cylinder. There is a single lip around the rod which prevents fluid going into the vacuum portion and the valve which closes the port that supplies or replenishes fluid into cylinder is nothing but a big blob of rubber which covers a hole. That rubber valve is held in place by a spring which can fail or any loose debris in the cylinder can float & catch on the rubber and prevent a seal. No seal, no way to force pressure out to brakes. The conventional cylinder closes off the hole as soon as piston and cup move past so no way for fluid to escape. The hole and lip seal in BTV is under all the pressure developed and any leak will result in no brakes.

Posted on: 2009/11/25 16:53
 Top  Print   
 


Re: DO NOT TRUST BTV
Home away from home
Home away from home

PackardV8
See User information
"BTV is essentially an approx 3/4" closed tube filled with fluid which a rod or "piston" pushes into..."

Minor correction: It is 1-3/16 inch diameter. The plunger is 0.655 diameter.

Posted on: 2009/11/25 17:02
VAPOR LOCK demystified: See paragraph SEVEN of PMCC documentaion as listed in post #11 of the following thread:f
packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7245
 Top  Print   
 




« 1 ... 13 14 15 (16) 17 18 19 ... 31 »





- The following Google Ad-Sense Advert helps fund the cost of providing this free resource -
- Logged in users will not see these. Please Join and Donate to help support the website -
Search
Recent Photos
Photo of the Day
Recent Registry
Upcoming Events
Website Comments or Questions?? Click Here Copyright 2006-2024, PackardInfo.com All Rights Reserved