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Good news. Bad news. And possible future news.

Got the kits and put them in. Very pleased with the quality. And the car runs absolutely wonderful.

The accelerator pumps are still Buna-N which will fail with E10 gas like the NAPA kits. I talked to Gina at Daytona and she said that because there are so many kits and stock sitting around, she doesn't see anyone making Viton seals for this application. A quick check at Clark's Corvair confirms this.

Now, owning a machine shop has its advantages. Having a hired man that has been through tech school for a two year model building course is an advantage too. We studied the seals and will be making a mold for these as soon as we can find a place that will sell the right compounds in the small amounts that we need.

The kit I got for my Carter 2102s carb from Daytona had a pink leather accelerator pump. But that was several years ago.

Quote:
"The accelerator pumps are still Buna-N which will fail with E10 gas like the NAPA kits"

ok. but how did u determine that it is specificly Buna-N???
That is to say, how do u know that it is NOT some OTHER type of material not compatible with ethanol????

ANd "We studied the seals and will be making a mold for these as soon as we can find a place that will sell the right compounds in the small amounts that we need."

ok. Make a new seal. But how will u install the seal on the accelerator pump plunger shaft.??? I will admit ignorance here in that i have never tried to R&R a seal from the plunger shaft. How will that be done???

I believe they are Buna-N because that is what Gina from Daytona told me. Chances are, this is correct because it is such a common rubber.

Part of my business is make masking tooling for the metal plating industry. I work with Buna-N, EPDM and silicone depending on the chemicals and processes they are being used with. Buna-N is by far the cheapest and easiest to work with and with straight gasoline, it is fine.

While studying up on Viton, I learned that there are rubbers that will work with alcohol and gas but not when they are mixed. Especially with the reformulated gases of today. Dyneon is the 3M equivalent of Viton.

The seal just stretches over the pump rod. We measured the new seal, the old pump rod and the pump well in the carb. I am confident we can form a piece of rubber that matches exactly.

Thank u for the explanation.

Ok, so if the accellerator pump is Buna-N then what about the needle for the needle and seat???? Would a reasonable and sober person therefore conclude that if the accel-pump is Buna-N then the needle is Buna-N too????? I would thing so. But then again my mind could turn to vinigar any day now.

The real culprit is not the accel pump because it gives rather safe warning at failure. But the needle is the danger point. As it swells it lowers the float level thus causing a lean condition and thus causing expensive potential engine repairs.

Accelerator pump made ethanol proof is somewhat of a moot point if the needle remains to be compromised by ethanol.

Excellent point about the needle and seat.

However, instead of pissing around with a succession of synthetic materials that may turn out to be susceptible to whatever they decide to throw in the fuel mix next, WHY NOT GO BACK TO THE OE ALL-METAL DESIGN? They have to be easier to make than all these past "improved designs" that don't hold up to modern fuel blends.

Suppliers can talk all they want about how the superior sealing quality of float needles tipped with Viton, et. al., but the ONLY alternative to the OE design that made sense to me was something called the Grose-Jet, which uses the ball-and-cone principle. Why that one never became the dominant species for hobby, if nothing else, use escapes me.

Quote:
"WHY NOT GO BACK TO THE OE ALL-METAL DESIGN? They have to be easier to make than all these past "improved designs" that don't hold up to modern fuel blends."

Yes, Superb idea. And yes, who knows what is IN FACT being dumped int pump gas anyway. As for the grosse jet i never used one but remeber seeing them advertised. There have been variations of the grosse jet found in rebuild kits. One variation used not a ball but rather a parabolic disk. Parabolic on both sides.

At this point with carb problems arising due to variuos issues i would not be encouraged to start experimenting with varaiations from the OEM solid tipped needle. Maybe later on some years down the road when hte vapour lock and other fuel related problems are overcome.

Urban legend #1:
Seat and needle must be replaced as a set. THis only holds true about 20% of the time at the max. I've mixed and matched them way too many times for that claim to be tite enuf to hold gasoline. Don't worry, u'll know it rite away when the 2 out of 10 don't match.

Urban legend #2:
Complete (no partial) rebuilds of carbs. Sure, and thats is EXACTLY why we are here discussing KITS THAT DO NOT WORK!!! IF OEM GUNUINE kits can be had then that's a different story. Biggest problem with amature rebuilders is that they fail to study the carb AND THE KIT. Of all AFTERMARKET kits i've ever personally used (not many) and many aftermarket kits i was involved with while others were doing the rebuilding such kits either had parts that did not fit correctly or parts, especialy gaskets that simply were not made for that particular model of carb.

Carbs have a number or usualy a tag on them. The kit must be compatable with the number. Aftermarket rebuild kits try to cover too many variuos models of the same make and design of carb. So REAL WORLD there is NO such thing as a "complete rebuild". Once again we have an item here that falls into the same catagory as 'rebuilt batteries", "rebuilt radiators" , regrooved tires. In the case of the carburetor it requires study of the circuits and the way it works. Most people are not going to put that kind of time and effort into the process.

I mean shit, i've got an exacto knife here. I can cut my own gaskets if needed. Sure beats dropping in kit gasket that is missing a circuit hole or other malodies.

THe KIT must be studied too!!!!!

I have ran into carbs hat did need a complete rebuild. Just like i've ran into tires that had no grooves and batteries that were dead and radiators so rotten.

On such carbs that needed a complete rebuild there were worn butterfly disks, throttle shafts, among other things that did not come in the kit. Usualy in those cases the carb is so far gone that a different carb had to be rebuilt and or robbed for parts.

Bottom line: so called "kits' are just partial rebuilds anyway. In the real bad cases of carb problem requires a machine shop and efforts such as BlackBeard is attempting. Can't get that out of a box.

Re: the needle and seats.

The fuel inlet valve in these(all?) kits from Daytona are made of Viton.

I'm making a wild guess here, but to me there looks like a limited number of seats for each brand of carb. This is possible because the fuel flow rate is unimportant as long as it's enough for the highest usage carb/engine. The same isn't true for accelerator pump, which must be tuned to the application.

As far as Viton being new and possibly a passing thing, it's been around for 25+ years. I think it has proven itself.