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Gary Marshall

Re: 359 Straight Eight Engine

#21

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From what I understand a AutoLite spark plugs are best, I looked at website, so many different types, what do you recommend ?
Am I right in thinking that gap is 0.25. ?

Posted on: 2010/12/19 10:14

John Wallis

Re: 359 Straight Eight Engine

#22

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Quote:

BigKev wrote:
Agreed. Buy the time you source all the 359 specific parts and do all machining required (assuming the 327 casting can be bored out that far without issue), it would have been cheaper to source a complete 359. Also because the 359 specific parts are "one year only" they are far harder to locate. Where as most of the parts between the 327 motors and even some of the 288 parts are interchangeable.

For comparison:

A '54 359 9 Bearing motor, Hydraulic Lifter (found in the 400 series cars) with a 4bl carb is rated at 212 hp.

A '54 327 5 Bearing Motor, Hydraulic Lifter (found in the 300 series cars) with a 4bl carb is rated 180 hp.

A '54 327 5 Bearing Motor, Solid Lifter (found in the Clipper Deluxe and Supers) with a 2bl carb is rated 165 hp.

In '53, the Senors came with a 327 9 Bearing, Hydraulic Lifter which was also 180 HP.

Agree 100%. 359 engines aren't too hard to find (I have a few extras laying around), though most have a replacement iron head. The difference in real world power between a 9 main 327 and a 359 is pretty negligible and not worth the expense of machining, new rods/pistons etc. Of course if authenticity is the issue, a bored/stroked 327 is still a 327 (identifiable by both serial and casting numbers) and not "correct" for a 1954 senior.

Posted on: 2010/12/19 11:28

Owen_Dyneto

Re: 359 Straight Eight Engine

#23

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I don't know that I'd use the word "negligible" for the difference in power. I've driven both a 54 Cavalier (327 - 185 hp) and 54 Patrician (359-212 hp), the later rather extensively and though the difference isn't dramatic, it surely is noticeable. Both were non-gear start Ultramatic.

Posted on: 2010/12/19 12:04

Rusty O\'Toole

Re: 359 Straight Eight Engine

#24

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$Rusty O\'Toole$

Quote:

PackardV8 wrote:
"A '54 359 9 Bearing motor, Hydraulic Lifter (found in the 400 series cars) with a 4bl carb is rated at 212 hp."

AND

"In '53, the Senors came with a 327 9 Bearing, Hydraulic Lifter which was also 180 HP."

Why couldn't a 53 Sr. 327 9 bearing engine be converted to a 359 by milling 1/8 inch piston crown clearence out of the 327 head and obtain a 359 crank???? Maybe have to cut 1/8" from the bottom of the 327 pistons. Of course this assumes that the 327 pistons are no smaller in diameter than the 359 pistons.

I'm not familiar with the Packard streight 8 variations but milling out a head for piston clearence and a stroked crank is not uncommon for strokeing an engine while using the same rods and pistons.

Rather costly yes. Cranks are expensive and so is milling out combustion chambers. PRobably better,easier and cheaper ways to pick up the extra 32 HP than stroking in this particular case.

To use a longer stroke crankshaft with the same rods you need pistons with the wrist pin located higher in the piston. If the stroke is 1/4" longer the pin needs to be 1/8" higher. In this case the crankshaft would be ground offset by 1/8", the new piston would put the top of the piston in the same spot at the top of the stroke but 1/4" lower at the bottom of the stroke.

Instead of moving the wrist pin, manufacturers found it more convenient to make connecting rods 1/8" shorter and use the same pistons.

Posted on: 2010/12/19 12:17

Mike

Re: 359 Straight Eight Engine

#25

Home away from home

Quote:

Owen_Dyneto wrote:
I don't know that I'd use the word "negligible" for the difference in power. I've driven both a 54 Cavalier (327 - 185 hp) and 54 Patrician (359-212 hp), the later rather extensively and though the difference isn't dramatic, it surely is noticeable. Both were non-gear start Ultramatic.

But was the difference worth the price and effort? Cheaper, easier, and way more effective would be a tranny swap from an ultramatic to, say, a 200r4 or 700r4. It would be a whole new animal AND better on the highway. And i'm admitting that as a guy who loves his ultramatic enough to repair everything in it rather than swap it.

We gotta see the forest for the trees, and step back and realize there's more than one way to skin a cat. If the performance we want can't be had without ridiculous price and effort one way, maybe we can get it back by improving things in a different way.

Posted on: 2010/12/19 13:35

John Wallis

Re: 359 Straight Eight Engine

#26

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Quote:

Owen_Dyneto wrote:
I don't know that I'd use the word "negligible" for the difference in power. I've driven both a 54 Cavalier (327 - 185 hp) and 54 Patrician (359-212 hp), the later rather extensively and though the difference isn't dramatic, it surely is noticeable. Both were non-gear start Ultramatic.

You may have a point, but at this stage (almost 60 years post production) a lot depends on the individual car. At one time I had both a '53 Mayfair HT (327/185HP) and a '54 400 convertible (359/212HP) and I thought the Mayfair was a bit "peppier"..... perhaps due to being a few pounds lighter? Both were Ultras, the 359 was recently rebuilt, the 327 was a low mile original in a decent state of tune.

Posted on: 2010/12/19 15:15

Gary Marshall

Re: 359 Straight Eight Engine

#27

Home away from home

Did the 359 Engine 54 conv have the Chrome Valve Covers, or was it only the Carribean?

Posted on: 2010/12/19 22:13

HH56

Re: 359 Straight Eight Engine

#28

Forum Ambassador

No fancy chrome on 54 engines except maybe the head stud acorn nuts if still officially available then. Exposed rocker covers didn't happen until the V8 engines but believe chrome standard on Caribbeans, an option for the Packards.

Posted on: 2010/12/19 22:38

Howard

John Wallis

Re: 359 Straight Eight Engine

#29

Home away from home

Quote:

Gary Marshall wrote:
Did the 359 Engine 54 conv have the Chrome Valve Covers, or was it only the Carribean?

Hi Gary, by "chrome valve covers"..do you refer to the tappet adjusting covers? Only the 1955-56 OHV V8 Caribs had chrome valve covers standard. The 1954 359's were flathead (side valve) engines and had no valve covers per se.

Posted on: 2010/12/19 22:40

Gary Marshall

Re: 359 Straight Eight Engine

#30

Home away from home

If after testing for standing cease, and it's not budging, and doing everything I can, including putting anti rust chemical down valves, Is the next job possible for a amature like me, to save money, or only a job left to the proffessional ? If left to the Pro, may turn out very expensive, so would you recommend perhaps trying to get hold of a reconditioned engine? As the car arriving hopefully by April next year, it's a good time for me to know all the options. I fear engine rebuild is not a job left to the amature. Any thoughts ??

Posted on: 2010/12/20 23:29

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