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Re: 51Packard's....51 Packard
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Randy Berger
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Dumb question. You do realize that both wires are connected to the negative post on the battery via the switch??
When testing, ground the frame of the motor and connect one wire at a time to the NEG terminal of the battery.

Posted on: 2011/1/24 23:41
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Re: 51Packard's....51 Packard
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Stephen Houseknecht
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Real nice job on your wiring harness, pretty impressive job. That capacitor you were asking about is for the radio.

I can't wait to see what the inside of my antenna is going to look like. Thanks for posting the images.

Posted on: 2011/1/25 0:02
Stephen
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Re: 51Packard's....51 Packard
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Charles
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Thanks for the complement Stephen. I guess these antenna's were not isolated from water very well.

Randy, to test it, I hooked up the ground wire to the positive side of the battery and attached the other wires, one at a time, to the negative terminal. That was before I took it apart. I can try again, now that the gear portion has been removed and see what happens. Judging from what the inside looks like, I'm not too hopeful. But then again, I have zero experience with motors or how they work.

If the motor still doesn't work, I wonder if I could pour PB Blaster into the motor housing itself. Would that hurt anything? Maybe the oil will get down to the ends of the stuck screws and help loosen them?

Posted on: 2011/1/25 8:33
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Re: 51Packard's....51 Packard
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Stephen Houseknecht
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Try Deep Creep. I have been very impressed with what it will do (except when I was trying to free my engine last year this time). Maybe I should try turning it again as it has had almost a year to work.

Also might want to try some electrical parts spray cleaner.

Posted on: 2011/1/25 9:37
Stephen
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Re: 51Packard's....51 Packard
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HH56
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I'd be careful with the PB blaster or anything with a petroleum solvent around the wiring. If you can find some locally, the electric contact cleaner would be a better solution--the type that says no damage to contacts or plastic.

The windings themselves may not be hurt with PB because they are usually enamel or varnished wire but there may be some insulating tape or sleeving used that might be softened by petroleum. If you do have to use PB or something like it, try to keep anything you use confined to mechanical.

If the armature turns, the problem is most likely the brushes and commutator area being corroded and not making contact. That motor is pretty simple with only two field coils. One or the other coil is connected (depending on direction wanted) to switch and power. Both coils are connected at other end in series with armature and completes circuit to ground. If the motor was bound up, while unlikely, it is possible something has burned.

If you use the cleaner, you can spray the brushes and holders and make sure the brushes slide freely and springs are able to supply pressure. Once they do, reassemble to armature and spray some more on and rotate armature with brushes pressing against it. Clean the commutator and wipe up any old oxidized material with a rough paper or rag. Don't use anything like sandpaper on the commutator that will scratch it or leave something embedded in the copper.

Here is a typical schematic used for antenna, window, TL and most other post 24th series reversible motors Packard used.

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Posted on: 2011/1/25 10:28
Howard
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Re: 51Packard's....51 Packard
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Charles
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1-25-11

Thanks for the warning about PB Blaster. My gut told me it wasn't a good idea and I'm glad I mentioned it here first.

This is what I have to report thus far.

I pushed the insulating plate back down. Tried the motor on the battery again, now that the gear housing is removed. Some sparks by the contact with the battery, but no movement or noise.

Next I lifted the insulating plate again and sprayed the inside of the motor with contact cleaner. So much so, I could hear it sloshing around so I shook the motor some to get it all around. Then I drained the excess and closed the plate again. I did not have any abrasives other than sandpaper so I used a utility knife to scrape at the two pads with springs attached (brushes?) on top of the insulating plate. I did not touch the copper armature that they rub against. Instead I sprayed the whole thing with contact cleaner again and wiped the copper.

Took some pliers and was able to turn the motor by hand. It moved fairly easily, but there was a sound like sand rubbing. The motor also would lift up and down inside the housing about a 1/4". I guess that is a good sign that it is not stuck.

Tried the motor on the battery again. Again there were small sparks with contact, but no movement. Then I thought that maybe that battery was in bad shape from sitting so long. I pulled out my battery charger and hooked the motor to that.

Now I could hear a hum from the motor and the housing felt like it was vibrating a little, but no movement. Tried the other wire, but that did not work either. While connected, I tried to move the motor shaft around with my hand, but that didn't get it to move. Then I saw a small amount of smoke so I disconnected everything and ended the experiments.

Is there anything else I should try or did I do something wrong? Should I now drill out the screws on the bottom of the motor or would that be useless since the motor turns?

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Posted on: 2011/1/25 18:38
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Re: 51Packard's....51 Packard
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Charles
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As an electrical test, I put my multimeter on OHMS and connected one end to the end of the red wire. I probed both brushes and the meter moved, indicating a complete circuit. It also indicated a complete circuit when I touched it to the motor housing. Tried the black and ground wires and I got the same results. Is that right? I think it means everything is making a connection.

Posted on: 2011/1/25 19:03
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Re: 51Packard's....51 Packard
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HH56
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Here is what you'll find cutting or breaking the 3 screws off. They are 8-32 x 1/4 so no big deal replacing if they break other than getting broken part out of holes. Possibly try some heat or maybe get some vice grips on the screw head if there is enough there will convince them to move.

Looking at what's there it will have to come out and be cleaned and checked thoroughly. At least it doesn't look like a big deal to rewind--almost looks like something from science class. 2 windings wound in opposite directions probably --one atop the other.

When you take it apart, look out for a tiny ball bearing that lies in the bearing at end of armature. Otherwise just a spring and felt.

Electrically, the ground comes in and goes thru that bar with a contact on end which is probably a thermal circuit breaker, then to armature, out armature to the double wires going to one end of each coil and the other end of the coils back and soldered to the lead wires to switch.

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Posted on: 2011/1/25 19:41
Howard
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Re: 51Packard's....51 Packard
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Charles
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Thanks HH56...those pics really help. So the diagnosis appears to be to clean internals first and if that fails, it will have to be rewound? I assume there is some special motor wire I will have to buy. I've never done it before. I'll ask more if that time comes. I was thinking of using heat on the screws, but I was afraid of melting something in the motor.

Posted on: 2011/1/25 20:14
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Re: 51Packard's....51 Packard
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HH56
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Clean it well. As bad as that motor looks, you may have to go ahead and use some fine emery paper--maybe 600 grit. Just be very sparing and rinse with cleaner after doing it. Also, cut a narrow strip width of brush. Turn it around so the grit faces the brush and place between commutator and brush. Gently pull a few inches thru to clean the brush.. That contact under the silver metal strip that goes to brush also.

It gets ground thru a copper tab under the phenolic riveted to that strip. Looks like that copper gets mashed into the case to complete the ground so check that as well.

The field coil would not be a problem to rewind. Armature is a different story if that turns out bad.

Posted on: 2011/1/25 20:21
Howard
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