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No, that's not what I'm saying. There are generally two different engine numbering systems in use, though not all engines I've seen have them both. There is the ENGINE SERIAL NUMBER which is the same as the vehicle number and usually stamped on the flat below the oil filler tube though sometimes elsewhere, and there is the UTICA PLANT number which, up until May 3 of 1956 or thereabouts was stamped on the right rear exhaust flange.

Owen, thanks for the clarification. I was using incorrect PMCC terms. I went back and read the T56-20 STB that u cited.

IT says:
" Incidentally,the Utica Plant engine number is now stamped on the casting at the same general location as the engine serial number and not on the right rear exhaust port flange as has been the practice previously".

HOWEVER, i will comment that Nertney and PMCC's nomencalature is deceiveing at best, physically incorrect and by generaly accepted definition also incorrect. Note that it indicates "...on the right rear exhaust port flange..." which would mean on the cylinder HEAD. It is on the block UNDER the flange on my engines. NOT on the head.

Also, the "engine serial number" is not that at all but is rather the Vehicle Number by generally accepted terms.

I believe a reasoanble person might assume that the "Utica Plant engine number" is in reality the SERIAL number of the ENGINE as it came off of the engine assembly line at Utica.

I should have been more careful. I've found many decieving or at best 'hedging' comments thru out all of the 55-56 STB's and other 55-56 Packard documentation.

I will from now on attepmt to use the PMCC nomenclature as "Utica Plant engine number" and "engine serial number" in discussions unless someone else has conflicting documentation.

Would that be correct to avoid confusion??

I don't disagree at all, they didn't call it "the last days in the bunker" for nothing, probably pretty hectic times. But doesn't it make for fun going back into time and trying to disect all this?

The standards, back then, were still a long way from the VIN system many of us have enjoyed for so long with more modern vehicles.

All these little twists and turns through the formative years of the industry help show that nobody had the right answer the first time, but it all came together with trial by fire.

By piecing it all together in the public light of the Internet, perhaps we'll eliminate some obstacles to ownership and enjoyment for future enthusiasts.