Packard Forum Index » Post-War (1946-54)

I had a problem with a tapping noise coming from cylinders 4 & 5. After letting engine set idle while working on the rear end and also learning about the dangers of 10 percent ethanol in the gas, I figured a valve job would take care of my problems.
The engine sat for over a year and I found four of the valves wouldn't close completely. So as I started removing the valves and hyd. lifters, found two of the exhaust valves all most impossible to pull out by hand.
The real problem is that I could not remove the hyd. lifters from cylinder number one. I was able to remove the exhaust lifter by inserting a nut insert (after removing the Plunger), screwing a long rod into the nut insert and with this running up the valve guild, put a slide on it and pulled it out. I tried the same on the intake but the nut insert keeps pulling out. Does anyone know of something that would grab the inside to help pull it out of the Tappet. (The Tappet is what rides on the cam.) Or can the Plunger cylinder be squeezed enough where it would break apart and be remove in pieces?
Or should I just leave it along since the tapping noise was coming from around cylinders 4 & 5 and assume that once the clearance is set it will be okay.

Attach file:

---

  (16.55 KB)

All I can say is be careful! A mechanic had trouble removing a worn/collapsed lifter and managed to shatter the tappet housing. The relatively simple hydraulic lifter replacement then became a major production involving removal of grill, radiator, timing cover and camshaft to replace the broken tappet (cam follower). I'd also like to know if there's a safe way to get the hydraulic lifter out of the tappet when it's really stuck (without removing the entire tappet/lifter assembly from below).

I am a little concerned about your method of removal (if you are ultimately unable to remove and replace the lifter). The internal tolerances of the plunger and cylinder are very close and using anything that would gouge or deform the interior of the cylinder may leave it both stuck and unusable.

Amen to JD's cautions! Closest tolerances in the entire car are in the hydraulic lifter assembly - they were fitted by hand selection.

Just a guess as to what happened - someone did a valve grind or replacement and failed to make the adjustment of the proper clearance between the hydraulic lifter and the base of the valve stem.

I am going to give it another try with using a nut insert, I really don't want to take the cam out. If this doesn't work I will probably put it back together and than later this summer pull the whole engine.

This engine was suppose to have been overhaul by an old man (back in the 80's) that knew Packard engines, but the more I find wrong, the more I think he just threw stuff together.

I have found an excellent web site that explains how these Hyd. Lifters work, although it does talk about airplanes. It is very informative.

egaa.home.mindspring.com/engine3.htm

Wes, I sent you a PM.

Take a look at Jim's (39Super8) project blog. He came up with a method of removing them without having to pull the cam.

Dear Wesley:

With these old motors it's a good idea to start with carburetor cleaner and penetrating oil for a week to let everything soak.

Given the plunger is what is holding hydraulic pressure those stuck lifters are toast.

I have seen those tappets crack and cause collapsed lifters as well, so if your car has been suffering from sticky valves then clean the tappets out with brake parts cleaner and compressed air (if available) and make a thorough inspection.

Soak the stuck lifters and try carefully heating the tappet. (turn the motor to raise the tappet to open)

They might even blow apart so wear goggles.

Hope this helps.

Quote:

The part relevant to the actual removal of the lifter starts here.

Hi Wesley, welcome to the site. JD has graciously provided an easy link to my record of removing stubborn stuck lifters from the tappet body. I just did a quick run-through the thread and see everything about why it happens (stuck valve hydraulicing the lifter body) and so forth are accurately recorded.

If you get the tooling made and get the lifter out of the tappet body fairly easy, then I'm sure you'll be fine. If it's super stuck, I recommend checking the nose of the cam. Also, I would be very cautious about pro-longed operation with collapsed lifter(s) because the condition hammers the cam lobe.

Post any questions, I'll follow the thread when I have a chance and try to help out if possible.

Best of luck!

Thanks for all the information, it is very helpful. I will keep you updated on the progress. Since I never heard any tapping from that cylinder. I'm thinking that, the check valve and plunger are working correctly and the only problem is that the valve body is not free to rotate and has to rotate with the Tappet.