Packard Forum Index » V-8 (1955-56)

I am new to this NG so would like to introduce myself. My name is Joe Hall, a long time affecianado of the 352 Packard powered 1956 Studebaker Golden Hawks (a.k.a. 56Js). It's a love affair that began in the late 60s with my first 56J at age 16. Since 1986, I have owned about a dozen 56Js. Though most were projects or parts cars, I restored four to "excellent driver" condition, and still own two of those four.

I am member #10 in the 56J club, that has been around since early 1989, and now numbers around 500 members. I also volunteered to serve as mechanical tech advisor for that club many years ago, and have written several articles that hopefully helped others to some extent.

As for driving 56Js, I have put around 180,000 miles on five different ones, counting the one in high school.

Probably sparked by the upcoming co-located Studebaker & Packard meets in South Bend next month, I recently began reading about Packard V8s on-line. This site is excellent, as are the AACA and Panther Project sites. Its been fun, and I not finding you folks sooner.

In reading the trials and tribulations many of you have experienced with your Packard V8s, much is familiar with my experience with the same engine in 56Js.

One topic I have not heard much about however, is high mileage. Who has the highest mileage Packard V8 out there, and how much of its history are you personally aware of, to include preventive and corrective maintenance, and any modification needed or done.

To kick it off, the 56J I have had since 1986 now has around 215,000 miles on it, still with the original engine.

When I bought the car, it had 81,000 miles on it and had been "shade tree" overhauled at an estimated 75,000 to include .030 OS, Bonham (OEM) pistons that were drilled at .005-.007" clearance. It never had a lifter noise problem but had piston slap when cold, so I drove it that way for about 65,000 miles before re-rebuilding it.

I do all my own work except machining, and had a machinist sleeve all eight holes to re-use the .030 OS pistons; as the machinist promised, this has not been a problem. When I rebuilt it, I DID NOT CHANGE THE OIL PUMP; I did not know it was a potential issue at that time. I do not know if someone installed a new oil pump before I bought the car, but the one that is currently in the engine has at least 135,000 miles on it.

Since the rebuild, I havce ran 15W50 'Mobil 1' oil in it and changed the oil and filter religiously every 10,000 miles. It still holds the same oil pressure as when first rebuilt: 50psi cold; 40-50 when above 2000 rpm, and 30-40 at idle around 750-800 rpms.

Anyone else have a high mileage Packard V8 to comment on?

Joe H

Hudson ran a different design of oil pump than what was used in the Packard cars. Someone refresh my memmory, did the 56J use the SAME pump as used in the Packard cars????

Joe: Does the pump in your 56J have an OPEN pressure relief valve port or does it have a hex plug in it????? WHERE does your oil FILTER receive oil from???? Front of left head????? Does your 56J pump have a vacuum pump on it????? Does your 56J pump have a bushing in the LOWER PLATE???? How far above the top of the pump is the flex joint????? Are u SURE it is even a Packard pump??? Got a pic of the pump???

My 56 Executive had only 34K ORIGINAL miles on it when i got it and the shaft and bearing surface of the pump was worn .006 inch. My other very original Executive had 115K miles on it and the pump in it was also worn the same how ever i did not run that engine more than 5 minutes.

Keith -

Attached is a photographic illustration of the oil pump used in the '56 Golden Hawk - from the Studebaker Service Bulletin that recommended installation of the "sump tube".

Notice that there is no vac pump on this version of the Packard V8 oil pump - just a flat bottom plate. While some Packard owners have spent good money to eliminate the vac pump in favor of a flat plate, clearly some 56 GH owners had the same complaint as PackardV8 owners or Studebaker would not have published this bulletin for the 56J.

Seems to me that the vacumm pump was NOT at the root of the lifter noise and oiling issue.

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"Joe: Does the pump in your 56J have an OPEN pressure relief valve port or does it have a hex plug in it????? WHERE does your oil FILTER receive oil from???? Front of left head????? Does your 56J pump have a vacuum pump on it????? Does your 56J pump have a bushing in the LOWER PLATE???? How far above the top of the pump is the flex joint????? Are u SURE it is even a Packard pump??? Got a pic of the pump???"

56J pumps do not have the vacuum pump. As shown in the pic, it is replaced with a simple flat plate; there is no bushing in the plate. Also, the driveshaft flex joint location is identicle to Packard. All of the pumps I have saw have the pressure relief valve held in place by cotter pins.
It is easy to make a 56J pump out of a Packard pump (just need to make a plate) but not so simple to make a Packard pump out of a 56J pump; need all the innards for the vacuum portion. When I ordered a pump from Max M, he mistakenly sent me a Packard pump. All I did was switch the plate out with the vacuum pump parts.

Apparantly, it used to be possible to have 56J pumps rebuilt accross the counter. I have a pump that has "Rebuilt by..." stamped in indelible ink on the side of the body, but I can't make out the last words of the stamp. That pump has a slightly larger diameter driveshaft. So, it appears at least part of the rebuild was to drill out the worn shaft hole and install an oversize driveshaft.

Joe H

Packard and Studebaker used the same main oil pump body, AMC was completely different. AMC determined that the Packard/Studebaker pump was insufficient from the get-go, and designed their own oil pump to replace it. It's not much better than the Packard oil pump.
Keith, post a pic of the AMC pump that I gave you, the only other one I have is in my Patrician.

Brian. True, the vacuum pump in and of itself would not be the root cause of the lifter noise. HOWEVER, the vacuum pump places SIGNIFICANT additional load on the shaft thus causing faster wear. Of the three or four vacuum pump units i have witnessed the vacuum pump is rather ill fitting. The ill fitment contributes and even greater additional load on the shaft.

Well, I'm just thinking that if the lifter noise is connected to premature wear of the pump, then the vac pump isn't at the root of that problem - else there would have been no need to advise Studebaker dealers of the sump tube kit (effectiveness of that kit not withstanding).

Wouldn't the pump gears be self-centering, under pressure, and help keep the driving shaft squarely in its bore - at least until there is significant wear of the gears and separator plate?

One problem might be that there never was a bushing for the driving shaft or - as you discovered - the Packard pump lacks an oiling channel for the driving shaft that the SBC pump has. If that channel had been there from day on, I bet the bore and shaft would have lasted a helluva lot longer - even with a sacrificial casting as it were.

As for the additional load on the Packard V8 oil pump, the vacuum pump is quite similar to the vacuum motors that drive so many air tools - just works in reverse. As such, I'm having a hard time visualizing the additional load as a problem when the pump is merely pulling only inches of vacuum - unless it is binding internally. Perhaps we ought to put a few drops of air too oil down the vac pump's intake pipe on occasion.

It's interesting to note that a 1957 Buick shop manual I have shows an oil pump with a vacuum pump riding piggyback, but that old Nailhead V8 never had the reputation for oiling issues that Packard V8 owners have had to endure. There's still a piece of the puzzle missing here that needs to be found.

One of these days, I'm gonna have to get out to the Funny Farm and my dad's old Exec (which never had a lick of oiling problems or lifter noise) and yank the engine for some serious forensic work so we can all compare notes.

Meanwhile, let's keep collecting data in this good thread.