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I guess I don't understand this picture, isn't it the same one we already saw and commented on?

Guscha: Thanks for posting the picture of the 31 with the split bumper.

I just went to another reference book I have and it shows two pictures of two different models of 1932 Pierce-Arrows. One picture of 1932 Model 54 is shown with a split front bumper. The other picture is of 1932 Model 53 with a solid one piece front bumper.

In the same book for 1931 it shows two of the 1931 Pierce-Arrow's and both have a one piece front bumper.

I guess that the only conclusion that we can draw is that
the car in question could range in model year from being a 1929 through 1932.


John F. Shireman

Two pictires of 1931 Pierce-Arrow's with both style bumpers.

John F. Shireman

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Using the Automobile Quarterly of 1968, it first appears that you've got to specify which model in which year when looking at bumpers. For example a 1932 Model 54 has a one-piece front bumper, but the 1932 Twelve Model 1247 has a two-piece. I believe all 1934 and up have l-piece regardless of which chassis. 1930 Model B has a two-piece as the 1931 Model 43.

Using Bernie Weiss' wonderful little P-A book (republished in 1981) shows 1933 Twelves with both 1- and 2-piece front bumpers, a 1932 Pierce 8 with a 1-piece, and a variety of 1931s all with 2-piece except for a Waterhouse close-coupled sedan. Of course custom-bodied cars could always be the exception and pictures of them don't help understanding what was factory equipment. A 1929 has a l-piece and the Series 80 and 81 (lesser Pierce Arrows if there is such a thing) have a variety as well.

I suspect the answer is, you can't identify the year and model of P-A by the front bumper alone. Pierce being what they were (absolutely wonderful cars), you could probably have asked for a snow plow instead of a bumper and gotten it.

I haven't checked Ralston's P-A book but may take a look later.

Owen: The 1933 Pierce-Arrow's had a new front and rear design. They went to what I call a skirted fron fender design.

John F. Shireman

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HEY Peter Hartmann:Two versions of the Pierce-Arrow V12 had the same stroke as a Packard V12. Also two of the versions of the PA V12 had smaller bores than the Packard V12.


John F. Shireman

Peter Hartmann: Since you stated that I didn't know what what I was talking about concerning Pierce-Arrow's. Now answer me the following question which of three versions of the Pierce-Arrow V12 had a bigger bore than the Packard V12.

John F. Shireman

John - I cant remember the tech. details about Pierces - been probably fifty years since I worked on one.

But that is the essential differences between us. I think you are a great guy for having enough interest in old cars to devote as much effort (and probably money) to getting a bunch of books about them.

That illustrates the difference between us - I am old enough to have owned, driven, & worked on big luxury cars from the 1930's when many of them were still in service as used cars, and you havn't had that opportunity.

That dosnt make me any smarter than you. I just happened to have been born into a time when I got a chance to get hands on experience, that you dont have.

In other web-sites you have suggested I did not have a sixteen cyl. Cadillac, or a Rolls Phantom. Not clear why you get hostile. This is supposed to be for fun and education. It is a free country. We all benefit from your contributions from your apparently vast store of book-learning.

The problem is, as time evolves, and more and more young smart alecs decide to write books, well-meaning guys like you can read something that you couldnt possibly know is just plain nuts, and then go off on tangents that are inaccurate.

Fact is ALL Pierce V-12 versions were good engines in great cars. Fact is, Pierce was NEVER able to generate the kind of consumer loyalty that Packard did.

Of COURSE Packards in ANY price class werent all THAT much superior to any other car in a relevant price class, but they were GOOD. DAMN good buys for the money. No question SOME features, as I pointed out, such as the over-drive, made Pierce, in some respects, "better" than a Packard. But you really ought to drive some of these cars you like to talk about, to get a more accurate perspective.

Again, please accept my SINCERE thanks for your many contributions from your book-learning. I have learned things from you and your sources I would never have learned on my own.

BUT DONT TRY AND TELL ME A PIERCE V-12 WAS BETTER THAN A PACKARD V-12 !

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Gerd,

And the winner of this beauty pagent is "Miss-Represented"! I can't believe she's that old!

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Owen: The 1933 Pierce-Arrow's had a new front and rear design. They went to what I call a skirted fron fender design.


John, that pale green 1933 Pierce Arrow V12 convertible sedan you show with blackwall tires under the RM Logo is actually a LeBaron, one of allegedly only 3 on the shorter (model 1242) wheelbase, and has an ostrich skin interior. It was owned for a time by Mr. George Couri of Tenafly New Jersey and did the Concours circuit a few years back. It has been suggested that it was originally owned by Carole Lombard though as far as I've heard there was no substantiation of that.

The P-A 1242 and 1247 were 3-1/2 x 4 bore and stroke for 462 cubic inches. The model 1236 was 3-3/8 x 4 for 429 cubic inches