Packard Forum Index » Modification Discussion

Pump went right in no alignment problems

mold for crankshaft key, which is 2-1/4 long, 3/16 x 1/4

wherever that saying about 2 piece shaft being for alignment is false..

in my opinion that is, the problem with pump..but will see when its running....

as for gasket that the 56j uses between pump and main, Studebaker engineers might of saw something,

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Several times you have mentioned the gasket 5.04032 as thinking that only appeared on the 56J Stude version of the Packard V8. Packard called for a gasket there as well. Perhaps I have misunderstood what you posted??

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We'll all learn something as Riki puts miles on this re-design.

Studebaker in 1951 and Packard in 1955, design engineers working independently, both came up with a wobble joint in the distributor/oil pump drive shaft.

Studebaker V8s have the joint at the bottom of the distributor. Packard put theirs at the top of the oil pump.

There are two pieces with mating joint to machine, a pin to install, a sleeve to install, another pin to install and peen. Seems like a lot of trouble for something Riki feels could be one piece.

His theory the wobble joint isn't needed is partially supported by most later V8s, i.e. Ford, Oldsmobile, etc., used an unjointed intermediate hex shaft.

The big block Mopar is the only V8 which comes to mind mounting the driven gear on the intermediate shaft and a bushing in the block.

If I ever get the urge, I've saved a BBM drive shaft. It would be interesting to convert a Mopar electronic distributor to fit the Packard and drive it with the BBM shaft and bushing, down to the Oldsmobile pump.

jack vines

Did Packard make all their own components for the oil pump or was part of it vendor items. I wonder if a vendor had a ready to use stock length shaft and rotor assy -- perhaps used by others -- and the joint was there to utilize that already made item. Seems like it would be cheaper to make a joint and straight length of shaft to partially utilize something already made instead of going to the expense of machining a complete proprietary pump assy.

Hello, all,

it's all down to running it now,

randy, the packard parts book does not show the gasket, but , studebaker showed gasket, with 56j oil pump diagram,, plate 01-13

packard plate no, 29a does not show gasket and is not listed, this is what i have been refring to, and my gasket set did not come with one, i just want to know if you need one, that is my question

Riki's photos,

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thank you howard,,

question, at sq, pan drops, to outlet, behind sq, pan is sorta flat, i put a straight edge on it, straight enough,, but ,, i put pan on, hit the filter,,never had that before, so moved tube, goes on now, but have little more that 1/4 inch before filter hits pan ,,when i put my finger in drain hole, and lift filter, no gasket on yet, does filter float that close to bottom..??,

thanks,,,,,

talking to p. sw, there are 2 pans, 2 part no.. kanter was looking for 56 pans, one was flat, other had drop.

hope gerry pops in and fills in rest..

Riki Quote:

There are THREE other significant problems with the original Packard oil pump that your "fixes" do not address:

1) Inadequate oil pumping volume due to the the spur gear design. Packard on the left, Pontiac high volume on the right (Olds HV is essentially the same as the Pontiac).



2) Poor design of the oil pressure relief sleeve valve and spring. The sleeve is too short and has inadequate bearing surface to hold it square in its hole. Once the sleeve valve gets slightly cocked in an open position, the small relief spring has inadequate force to push it back into closed (full pressure) position. Packard on the top, Olds HV on the bottom.



3) The bottom of the Packard oil pump is 3 INCHES above the bottom of the pan due to allowing room for the vacuum pump whether it is used or not. At the very least this puts the thru-hole for the driveshaft above the oil level in the pan, allowing the pump to suck in air rather than oil if the hole is worn. It also requires the pump to pull against a 3IN hydraulic head whereas if the pump bottom is 1/4in from the bottom (like the Olds conversion), there is no hydraulic head to overcome. Sorry, no side-by-side picture of this.

No amount of fiddling with the driveshaft, bottom plate thickness, etc. will fix these deficiencies. The only real solution is to use the Olds conversion.

Craig

I assume the cam is already installed???? If so then do u have distributor laying around with a scrap gear on it???? If so then grind teeth off of gear and install distributor. Turn by hand to chek for load or binding.

The only other test which is easier amd more precise is to remove the oilpump retaining bolts and run maybe a .002 feeler gauge between pump flange and main cap. Turn distribitor 1/3 turn test again. Repeat again with another 1/3 turn.