Packard Forum Index » Pre-War (1899-1942)

I am totally lost by these comments that people would "love" or "hate" different types or eras of Packard products. These are CARS, guys - manufactured PRODUCTS !

Peter, I suggest you read people's comments a bit too literally, or perhaps they make less than ideal word choices, maybe both. Sure the 39 Super has been controversial, especially in the era when it fought to get bona-fide Full Classic status. But I doubt any true Packard fan hates it, perhaps doesn't fawn over it would be more appropriate, or wouldn't care to own one, or not to my liking. I like all Packards, but would I want a First Series Single Six closed car with body by Pullman; no, just not my kind of car.

As to loving a car, I'm not an authority on the topic so I'll leave that to others who may dare to take it up. I'll just suggest that women and good whiskey should come first.

that sounds like a personal attack. I dont mind. But I think you owe us an explantion with some specifics.

Let's see if you have a legit. technical dispute we can resolve by discussing it? Who knows - might be interesting and help fellow Packard owners learn something.

I'll just suggest that women and good whiskey should come first.
I second the motion, particularly about women first!

Quote:

That coming from the king of personal attacks doesn't surprise me one bit.

Sorry folks, I did post a response to Gusha, but chose to delete it, just too far removed from the original topic about the 39 cars.

I had almost forgotten about this thread! My basic question was answered, however...

Also remember back then the interstate highways were not there. It was US-12 or the railroad to move those bodies.

Hi

Here's my perspective.

On the question of the physical differences, the 1939 Body and Chassis Parts Catalogs can most accurately answer how the 120 and Super 8 differ. Most obvious, they share major body stamping, therefore are much more similar cars than in previous years.

On the questions of 'love/hate' controversy of this transitional model by Packard enthusiast; that comes to the age-old views held by those that prefer the large traditional Classics, and have been enthusiasts who have generally looked down on the Junior series. In their defense, hard not to love the wonderfully high standards of design, engineering and quality the large Senior Packards represent so well. Anything built to a price standard, such as the junior series models, was going to be seen as a lessening of those high standards. When it displace the preferred models, to be disdained and even despised.

But Packard was a profitmaking operation at its core, and dependence upon Senior models exclusively couldn't sustain the company as the Depression reordered the economic realities. As much as old-line Packard management might have preferred to build only Senior models, consider the sales trend for 1935 and 1936 Eights and successor 1937 & 1938 Super Eights:

1935 & 1936 Eights, 320 ci engine, 127", 134" & 139" wheelbase.
1935 Series 1200, 1201, 1202: 4,781 units
1936 Series 1400, 1401, 1402: 3,973 units

With 1937 comes the first Senior line rationalization, dismissing the 384 ci engine, limiting the 132" & 144" wheelbase to the Twelve, the renaming former Eight to become the new Super Eight.
1937 Series 1500, 1501, 1502: 5,793
1938 Series 1603, 1604, 1605: 2,478

Even allowing for the anomaly of 1937 and the '38 recession, the market for the type of car represented by the Senior Packard was clearly a diminishing one. As we are all familiar, old-line management might have loved them, but Gilman and Christoper were far less enamored of that 'goddamn Senior stuff'. And, they were far more influential on product line decisions now their favored Junior Series had refilled the financial coffers.

The '39 Super 8 was the culmination of the integration and rationalization of the bread and butter Senior models that began as soon as the 120 was proving the financial salvation of the company. One of the cost drivers toward integration was the all-steel body, in which Packard had invested millions for 1938 for the Junior Series. The other would be the end of the multi-piece block in favor of the monoblock. The only reason the old '29-'38 Standard Eight/Eight/Super Eight 320 ci engines were employed was that was the only engine available appropriately sized for its market segment until the monoblock 356 arrived.

Now, we have to get to the marketing reason the Super 8 was integrated to share major assemblies with the Junior series: price competition. Cadillac had stolen a march with their Series 60 and 60 Specials in the $1,700-$2,100 segment while Packard snoozed for three seasons. The '38 Super Eight sedan was priced at $2,790, the '39 Super 8 sedan at $1,732, finally filling a void, making an attempt to compete in this emerging market. But, by the time the '39 Super 8 arrived to compete head to head, the Cadillac models were dominant in their market, leaving Packard to play catch-up, which it never did.

Thanks for reading my diatribe; I'll be interested to read your perspectives.

Steve