Packard Forum Index » V-8 (1955-56)

Cam retainer plate and spacer easy/quick visual IDs:

1. The first design plate has a notch in the inner bore. The hole is not round. The spacer IS round.
2. The second design plate inner bore IS round. The spacer has a flat spot on the OD.

Quote:

The two spacers are NOT interchangeable. Filing a second design flat on the first design spacer and putting it back into the first design plate would result in a larger pressure leak, making the low pressure problem worse, not better. DON'T DO IT!

The second design spacer is, IIRC, .045" larger in OD, so won't fit into the first design plate. If a first design spacer had a flat filed on it and were installed in a second design plate, it would be too small in OD and a terminal pressure leak would result. DON'T DO IT!

When my CNC machinist was refusing to make more new second design cam retainer plate/spacer sets for me, I worked over the first design plate, manually re-machined the center hole larger and made more of the second design spacers. This gives about 90% of the benefit of the second design plate. I was finally able to talk the CNC guy into a second run of all-new parts and am offering those for sale. If he refuses to make a another run of new parts, I still have a few of these hybrid sets on hand and the tooling to make more. Thus, I am asking for an exchange when I sell the new parts.

thnx, jack vines
Studebaker-Packard V8 Limited

Thanks Jack for the correction about I'change of the spacer rings. I was unaware of that.

Which plate in post #68 above is the LATE plate????? The upper plate is the LATE plate??? It matches the plate in the pic of my late plate that BH posted. That pic of my plate was taken about 5 years ago so my memmory is hazy.

Again, thannks for the correction on the ring diameter.

Also here is the link to JV's offer to mfg'er the plates from several months ago. I thot there was pic of JV's plate but there isn't. He gives a good pitch for the plate.

packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb ... &forum=8&post_id=8593#forumpost8593

Please explain to me how the exact design of the cam plate has relevance to the root problem of inadequate oil delivery from any Packard oil?

Craig

I can not think of any relevance to any pump.
But the late cam plate wheather Jack Vines plate or Packard late cam plate is a good idea for anyone that has an engine already torn down to that level for coincidental replacement of the cam plate.

With all this talk of cam plates and lockup converters, people have missed the whole idea of this thread, whether or not there's a big demand for the Olds adapter kits. The Olds conversion is the end-all solution to the Packard V8 oiling problem, plain and simple. Grinding on gears on a 50+ old junk oil pump that wasn't worth a $hit when it was new is about like a monkey fornicating with a football.

Lockup converters wouldn't cause premature bearing wear IMHO, since the Ultramatic was in use since '49. Unless of course you're all admitting that the straight eight is a better engine than the V8, and is immune to the premature wear that plagues the Packard V8! LOL!

Hi, Eric

No question, from the standpoint of main bearing wear, a heavier-built nine-main-bearing engine of lower specific output, with decades of development is a better engine than a higher-output five-main-bearing engine with only two years of development. ;>)

As to the market for oil pump conversions, Packard V8 owners are generally an old and conservative bunch, not enthusiastic about modifications. Fifty kits have been sold. How many more could be sold in the foreseeable future is unknowable. The investment is not large, but then neither is the return. The one other problem is an established vendor could decide to enter the market with an identical kit or devise a better solution. The market is certainly not large enough to support two vendors.

thnx, jack vines
Studebaker-Packard V8 Limited

Current and historical Analysis of the V8 oil pump is a result of wide spread and severe lifter clatter symptom. Had the severe lifter clatter never become a SYMPTOM then i would have never pulled the pan on my car not even the first time.

Such things as premature bearing wear and other malodies are only by-products of the analysis and the symptom.

It is the lifter clatter that has promtped all of this analysis AS WELL as the original PMCC's 'band-aid' fixes.

Yes, the original Packard V8 pump is essentialy junk in terms of it's application to the Packard V8 engine. Had the CONSPICUOUS symptom of lifter clatter never occurred then i doubt that ANY pump remedies nor analysis of any type past, present or future would have ever come to pass.
CERTAINELY not to the extenent that it has been analyzed.

Craigs sale of 50 pumps in < 3 years sounds pretty good to me. Pprofitability of it depends on factors that mite vary from person to person and trend to trend over the years.

OR, to put it another way: Is there ANY packard part that could be reproduced in quantities of 200 or more that would sell out in 3hree year or less???? I DOUBT it.

JV writes: "Packard V8 owners are generally an old and conservative bunch, not enthusiastic about modifications"

That is ALSO a good question to ask about YOUR Hi-Perf engines that u build Jack or Kanters roller timing chain kit, SS exhaust systems among other offerings et-al.

Quote:

I don't know about Kanter, but I only make a part if no one else has it for sale I've got to have them for the engines I build. The SS exhaust is just the OEM part in a more durable material, not a modification or performance enhancement.

As an indication of inclination toward modifications, historically there were fewer performance parts offered for the Packard V8 than for the Dodge flathead 6-cylinder.

thnx, jack vines

The most recent posts bring up an interesting point.

Let's say the cost of production was almost ZERO $, plus the cost of the oil pump (about $50), plus S&H, so the cost of the whole shebang was maybe $100 (dreaming here). How many guys who have not already done so would go to the trouble or expense of swapping out the oil pump, even though it can be done with the engine in the car? IMO, that is the potential market. The market starts to diminish when a price resistance is met. Very few of the previous 50 purchasers mentioned price ($250+$15S&H on eBay for kit alone) as an issue.

On the other hand, if your lifters are clattering, then you better do something about it or park your V-8 Packard.

Craig