Packard Forum Index » Pre-War (1899-1942)

Be forewarned: This is a very nice looking car, but the seller seems to believe it is a 160. Obviously it is not. Most people try to fake these by installing a 356 engine, but this one didn't even have that done. The only 160 items I see are the hub caps and the body trim "One Sixty" items.
ebay.com/itm/Packard-160-CLUB-COUPE-CLUB ... sh=item2351540619&item=151688316441

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In my mind red flags always go up when I see a repro patent plate, especially when it does not give a proper factory vehicle number. There are others here that know these cars better than I, like Roger Detroit, but here's what I see. The engine isn't even a "120" engine as evidenced by the "288" head. A 288 head will not fit a 282 so I'd assume the entire engine has been replaced with a 1948 or later unit (48-50 based on the water pump). The dash board instrument surround is "junior" as is the radio speaker grille, but the running boards have senior trim. Accelerator pedal appears to be from a 50s Packard. Ballast resistor on the coil suggests a 12-volt conversion. And of course the lack of vent window gear mechanism.

So...just another misrepresented mongrel, though an attractive one. I sometimes wonder why, when the buyer of such a car finds out what he's bought (assuming he didn't know at the time of sale) there aren't more lawsuits for misrepresentation. I guess the potential financial gain just isn't enough to make it worthwhile, given the legal costs to bring suit. It will be interesting to see if anyone brings the issues to the seller's attention.

I would have thought that if you were to spend all that money on the 160 trim pieces, you'd at least paint the hood to match the top as Packard did. This two-tone looks odd to me.

Hmmm... the eBay auction now says it sold for $29,750.

I did call the seller a few days ago and told him the car was NOT a 160 - he had no idea what he had. Told him that the car was a 120 with the wrong engine from 1948-50 and a bunch of 160 trim pieces. Mentioned that he needed to know this for his own protection in case he heard back from a disgruntled buyer.

Seller said he had a buyer from Belgium that made an offer on the car. So I don't know if the guy in Belgium bought it or if the seller pulled the listing until he figured out what he had.

It was for sale craigslist for a while in Virginia without a picture but last month it showed up with pictures and a price of $19.5k IIRC. I don't think he has to be worried about a lawsuit because the judge will throw it out most likely: Mr buyer did you personally check the vehicle before purchase?
"No, your honor"
Did you look at the pictures?
"Yes, your honor"
Was it visible in the pictures that it was not a 160?
"Yes, your honor, but I didn't know what I was looking at".
The judge will tell him to get the heck out of his court!

I get suspicious of some auctions on Junkbay. If a piece of junk gets a high bid, I suspect bid rigging and showboating. For example, I have a junkrod that I claim cost me $225,000. I can have friends make phony bids on it to try to hype the value. No transaction takes place.

In this case maybe somebody did bid on it, but that doesn't mean he actually paid for it.

I wouldn't buy anything like a car without actually seeing it.

Question: When we know an item is fraudulent, is there a moral obligation to report it to eBait?

Quote:

Yes, I agree, so I would try and report it to eBay, but they are not very helpful.

I've done it several times and it got worse each time I tried to report it. Several years ago you could file a complaint with eBay in a written report. Since eBay does know how to recognize a clone, they would right back and ask what, exactly, makes it a clone as they needed evidence to take back to the seller why they were pulling the listing. Then there would be a lot of back and forth with me, eBay in the middle and the seller. Became way too complicated.

A couple of months ago I tried to report another clone and all I was allowed to do was make one selection from a list of issues - none of which included car cloning or why you were reporting the car.

Not very satisfied with this part of eBay. It is truly buyer beware.

Given this rat was in Hemmings for the $29,750 I don't believe anything that is said as regards the junkbay ad.

I also don't think junkbay has a moral obligation as regards high dollar auctions because anything being sold at such a price requires due diligence to begin with. In the eyes of the law the old car hobby is crackpot stuff.

There are systemic problems with some of these cars. For example, the states don't seem to care about issuing historic plates to junkrods. To me that makes no sense because a junkrod is not a preserved vehicle. It is junk. The antique car insurers at least require the engine be the original. So an alert insurance adjuster would deny a claim on this car on the basis of misrepresentation. Thus, setting it on fire isn't going to work for this ratmobile.

I only use junkbay for penny ante stuff. For example, I recently bought an anti-virus program at the grocery store for $19.95. It wouldn't load because they demanded a credit card number. I bitched and told them the reason I bought it at the store was because I don't give my credit card numbers out on the junknet. Another anti-virus program I renewed using paypal didn't work either. I gave up and told them never to contact me ever again. Surprise! A year later they slammed my paypal account for a renewal at three times what I paid for the program I never used. So I filed a fraud complaint.

This is why I believe these junknet vendors are mostly fraudsters even when they pose as legitimate. So I avoid the junknet whenever I can and prefer my friendly neigborhood auto parts store - "Franks Auto Supply"

Just came across revised listing on Hemmings...listing has been revised, with no pictures of the engine now.

Hemmings Listing

On a side note, I think this was the original color of my 120 sedan. It is a pretty color combo...if only the hood was done correctly.