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A note on my experience with brake fade, or lack thereof. (I noticed somebody started a thread on drums.)

Last summer I drove the '54 Clipper all over Duluth, including the Skyline Drive, if you know what that is, and even using the OD with long braking down steep grades, I did not have a hint of brake fade following long (1/4 mi or so) and drove on to stop again shortly afterward and made stops with no extra pedal pressure. I suppose power brakes helped, too.

Maybe I was just lucky, but it was a hot day as well.

Here's how my brakes have been set up and maintained:

Rebuilt Crash-O-Matic MC, good fresh DOT 3 fluid, near new brake shoes (drums were good after 85K).

Using the OD puts strain on the brakes due to freewheeling. But it also gives a smoother driving experience around town. It seems to shift smoother, the OD kicks in at about 30 mph so it probably saves some gas, and there is much less engine noise at the lower revs (OD cars have the 4.1:1 diff).

I realize that in hilly driving, it's advisable to turn the OD off and get the engine braking, but this was kind of an experiment. I also braked down a long grade to the St. Croix river at about 55. Stopped at the bottom no problem, with a firm pedal.

Thoughts?

I had a brake fade problem in my Dad's 1955 Clipper Super 4dr while in High School. I was driving down a rather steep hill from Kearny Mesa to Mission Valley (near the Old Charger Stadium in San Diego) in 1962 with a car full of HS friends. By the time I got to the bottom at the stop sign, there were NO BRAKES. Oh, one could press as hard as one wanted on the pedal but absolutely nothing happened to impede the forward motion of the Clipper. Fortunately, there was no cross traffic, so I just turned left as planned.

That was scary. When I had a chance to put disc brakes on my 55 Pat, I did not hesitate.

Craig

Craig,

Thanks for the reply. Interesting story. My brother had a '55 400 that he used to drive to HS and then commuting to college in the early '70s. Most weekends he made a round trip of about 60 miles, and often had friends with him. No brake issues. My dad had rebuilt the MC. He kept that 400 and our Clipper Custom roadworthy for 30 years! But then, he was a professional mechanic. (I'd like to be able to ask him lots of Packard questions if he were still around.)

Quote:
I suppose if I had the money I'd go for the disc brakes and dual MC, but meanwhile I thought I'd share my experiences with the stock system since I had the complete brake job, including Bendix MC rebuild, two years ago. The brakes don't have the instant grab that I remember from driving our '55s. But the pedal is very firm.

I think you have posted your experience with switching out to disc brakes, and it would be nice to hear some of it again (which MC and rotors to use, cost and mods needed for installation etc.). or a link to the info.

For all:
It's a good idea to practice stops with the E-brake if you have the original PB system, or even manual brakes with a single MC. Knowing how to reach the handle quickly could save you and your car. Practice on a side street with little traffic, or in a parking lot. Also use it regularly when you park to keep it limbered up.

BTW, it's a good driving habit to tap your brakes a couple of times before you are coming to a stop or about to need to slow down in traffic, just to make sure they grab.

Other experiences with brake fade woes or lack thereof?


(Next time the wheels are off mine, probably for new tires. I'm thinking of painting the drums with black radiator paint for better heat dissipation. Good idea?)

55PackardGuy Quote:

1956packardpanther.com/Panther/powerbrakes.html

1956packardpanther.com/Panther/discbrakes.html

Plus, my friend Paul in Las Vegas who swapped over 1972-74 Lincoln front and rear disc brakes:

1956packardpanther.com/PaulExec/PaulPowerBrakes.html

1956packardpanther.com/PaulExec/PaulDiscBrakes.html

Craig

I had a pretty good dose of brake fade in the 56 Caribbean once, but it was in a very extreme situation, a long (certainly much more than a 1/2 mile), winding and very steep downgrade where you had to be on the brakes almost constantly and by the time I realized it I was going to fast to engage low range on the TU. After cool-down the brakes again seemed normal but when I got home and pulled the drums; the linings were crazed and thus replaced - the drums showed some warping and were trued. I've never experienced it again, now when I see those signs on a downgrade for trucks to use a lower gear, so do I.

Brake fade CAN happen on Disk too if they get hot enuf. AS for my 56 Exec in HOT Tn.summer interstate at 70-80 mph and on sooooome long hills on2 lane black ttttop running 60 mph i've never experienced any brake fade.

But then again, i've never tried to load the car down with an extra 1000 pounds of passengers nor tried to pull any airstream trailer thru the rockies either.

I do gettttt braake fade on both of my motorcycles that were built in 1940's on a very long steep hill and have experienced that at speeds as low as 20mph.

Never any on the Packard.

Most people doing disk conversions are doing so for the same reason that so many convert to e-ignition. CONVENIENCE to overcome low skill level and knowledge or sufficient parts availability/quality or converting from a 4 cyl to a V8 and need better brakes wheather disk or drum.

I knew Doug Heinmuller and he lost his brakes due to fade up in Maine. He was driving up and down hills in overdrive. At the bottom of one long hill was a stop sign. He went right through it.

Another case was in a 1930 Packard Touring Car owned by Ted Kavenagh. Back in the 40's he had a car load of people going up and down hills in Connecticut. They got onto the Merritt and couldn't stop for a traffic jam. He ended up running through the median as he put it "Like something out of a Buster Keaton movie."

Quote:

Don't forget that any conversion to different brakes is worthless for improving safety unless you ALSO install a dual master cylinder system, 'tho I think even this is not going far enough, because unless you have some kind of warning light to let you know when 1/2 the system fails, you're driving around with 2-wheel braking and a single master cylinder working. YIKES!

Quote:
Naughty, naughty. Disengage OD in hilly country.

Thanks for the links, Craig!

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OK, so I practiced what I preached that everyone else should practice, and lo and behold, my emergency brake has lost some of its stopping power! It slows the car but doesn't grab like it should. I think this is part of the process of "keeping it limbered up."

Probably have to readjust the cable a little tighter. It was serviced and set two years ago, when the brake shoes and linings were replaced.

This experience might indicate the time it takes to lose stopping power after adjusting the e-brake. I wonder if it's due to brake wear and cable stretching combined? (I set it every time I park.)

Or, something has failed, maybe one side let loose or broke and I only have one-side braking.

I'll have to struggle under there and see.

In case it just needs tightening, does anyone have hints on adjusting the cable?

(The shop manual doesn't have all the tricks that Packard owners have developed over the years.)

If you just need to take some slack out of the cable, there is an adjustment nut on the hook bolt at the bridle, that tightens up the rear cable to the rear drums.