Packard Forum Index » Pre-War (1899-1942)

Hi

Rereading the section in PACKARD A HISTORY OF THE MOTORCAR AND THE COMPANY page 305, last paragraph:

"....and the same triangular radiator cap as the 745 models. The chassis could also be purchased for mounting of special coachwork. The Packard illustrated a body by Kirschhoff so obliterating the Packard features that only the wire wheel hubs remained identifiable. Another, by Thompson, was given a rounded radiator shell (as was the Kirschoff), cycle fenders and low pointed body."

This accounts for two of the chassis, anyone have photos of these cars to post?

Now, I still have to find the other published reference to 11-13 custom-bodied 734. I'm still looking.....stay tuned.

Steve

Thanks, Steve
I have a feeling that even if pictures do exist, they may not be marked. And how would you tell that it's a 734? One way... I think that the 734s were the only chassis that had "locks" on the lock rings. Not actual locks, but bolts.
I recall seeing quite an odd 1930 Packard in one of the CCCA publications that sounds like your description. It was a mystery photo, and I don't remember if it was ever positively identified.

Hi West

Thanks for your response, if the only external indication is the "locked" lock ring on the wheels, it would be difficult indeed to positively identify a custom-bodied 734 in a period photograph.

Looking at my photos of your Dad's 734 Speedster taken at Hershey this year, I can't see the lock or bolts well enough to be sure they are different from those on other Packards photographed at the same time.

Another question regarding the 734: in addition to sharing the large engine in modified form, is that engine placed in the chassis as they were on the 740 or rear-ward 5 inches as was the 745? Did they share the hood with the 740 and 745C?

What is the spark of all my 734 interest? I do automotive art, specifically my custom own designs for favorite Classic chassis, trying to design in the context of their times. I've developed a close-coupled convertible sedan and a touring coupe such as was popular in Continental Europe, think of Galle, Binder, Million-Guiet, De Viscaya, and many others. These designs are then rendered in transparent watercolor and oil. It's purely an art exercise but pleases me no end when they come out right.

It occurred to me to ask if anyone has been able to identify any of those few 734's that received custom coachwork in the period.

Steve

My dad's car does not have the correct locking bolts on the lock rings. If one is trying to score the last few points on a judging sheet, you would need them. But unless you're trying to take the car to its 100mph-plus limit, they are not needed. The "lock" set-up is basically this: one threaded hole on each end of the lock ring. A flat plate between the two, with two threaded bolts holding the plate in place. I do not remember what the bolt heads look like. I sort of recall that there were no heads at all, just a hole so that you could run a good wire between the two. Dave Mitchell may be able to shed more light on this, as he's been working on a 734 for a customer.

The 734 engine is not set back like on the 745. However, the body of the 734 is set back at least six inches. I once saw Kanter's 734 roadster side by side with a 745 roadster. The difference in looks was amazing. Besides for being 6 inches lower, and a few inches narrower, the interior cowl was much further back, providing a much sleeker-looking profile.

Keep in mind when doing your paintings that the overall height of the 734s was six inches lower than normal 745-740 models.

Hi West

Thanks for the information on how the components are proportioned. With the cowl six inches rearward, does that still allow the hood to be shared with the 740/745C models?
Or is it unique to the 734? I understand the hood length is greatest on the 745 models therefore unique to that model.

On my art, I developed the proportional drawings from the rear three quarter factory photo of the Speedster, enlarged to approximately 15 inches. I sketched top up line of the Speedster to control the overall profile height.

I too love the a nice long hood, so designed a full length hood running all the way to the windshield. On the body width, I like the dropped lower sill line, so the body is shown as wide enough to accommodate that feature.

Both designs have dual rear mounted spares since sidemounts visually break the sweep of the hood design. Both designs also have step plates rather than running boards. Every feature is designed to emphasis the sporting nature intended in the 734.

It's one fun design exercise to work out what might have been!

Steve

It's very possible that the hood between the 734 and 745 is not the same. I know the cowl of the 734 is not only six inches further back, but it is also six inches longer.

It may be that the 745 and the 745C hoods are different. I know the radiators are different, as the 745C is about an inch taller.

It is totally correct to have rear-mounted spares on a 734. The only 734s to have sidemounts were the boattails and ONE phaeton. It is rumored that Packard may have intended the 734 to be entered in Le Mans or the Mille Miglia, but I don't think there has ever been anything proven on that. As such, they were built so that most heavy components were easily removable, including the top (at least on the runabouts). This is also why the bodies are narrower and lower.

By the way, I'd sure love to see your paintings, as would everyone here, probably. Would you consider posting a photo? If not, how about e-mailing?

Hi West

Thanks for the further clarification on how the 734 body differs from the other models. Since the body width is narrower, the hood must be unique to the model to have the proper taper even if it were the same length as that on the others.

With the cowl six inches rear-ward and another six inches of cowl length, that puts the driver's position a full foot further rearward? There must be changes to the steering and controls to accommodate?

The rear mounted spares really contribute to the cleanliness of the design in general, though understandable the Speedster has the sidemounts. No boat-tail design ever looks good with a rear mounted spare. I have never heard the rumors of their intentions to enter the 734 in LeMans and/or Mille Miglia. Whether they won or not, still would have been great lore. Did wonders for the DuPont!

As for showing the finished paintings, yes, but both are still in process now. The oil is about half done, shows the Continental touring coupe in an appropriate setting, Southern France on a glorious, clear, sunny day.

The watercolor, after a failed first try with a different background, I'm now starting a second try. The convertible sedan is parked in the driveway of a Prairie School style home, based on a design by John S. Van Bergen for the Alfred Bersbach house in Wilmette, Ill.

As much as I like designing and painting the cars, I always try to show it in an appropriate setting. Most times the background execution consumes more time than painting the car.

I will gladly send you paper copies of the pencil line drawing layouts for now if you'd like to have an idea what they are, since it be some time before the art ready to show.

This will be the venue that will have them to post, as well as the East Grand Packard website. If you look in this websites' photo file, you'll find my '57 Packard watercolor renderings of the Detroit designs. I didn't add a background to those yet.

Steve

I hesitate to say that the driver's compartment was a full 12 inches further back on the 734. I kick myself for not taking dimensions that day I saw the two cars side-by-side. I have to admit, I do not know the full details regarding the differences in hoods, cowls, etc. between the 745/745C/740. With the engine of the 745 back a little further, I don't think the seating of the 734 is a full 12 inches further back. It would depend on how that 6 inches was taken up in the 745.
I'll see if I can get some accurate information.

Hi, One of the 734 phaetons is comfortably resting in my showroom until spring if you want any dimensions from it. I also have some photos that I can send and I can send you a photo of the lock ring safety locks - there are small pins that are screwed into each end of the ring as West says, and they are drilled for pins (cotter), and that holds a small lock plate. I would guess that the front fenders might be the same as the 745. The bumpers and "bumperette" vertical ties are different than 745, and may be like 733. The tires are a half size smaller - 650/19 rather than 700. West is right the top of the body line is much lower also. On the open cars there is a cast metal trim piece that caps the doors and wraps around the cowl above the dash, and on the phaeton it also caps the rear of the front seat. On at least part of the cars this was chrome or nickle and some cars may have had this painted. There are very, very few "real" and complete 734s left, so if you see a photo of one, it may or may not be correct. Don's car is of course one of the few. I have the parts book supplement for the 734s and I can look up and see if the hood is the same as 745.

The story of the Speedsters is particularly fascinating to me, and they are way up on the list of my favorite cars. Col. Vincent went to Europe and went for a ride with W. O. in one of his supercharged Bentleys and was impressed, then on to France and a ride in a supercharged Bugatti with Ettore, and he was impressed, then on to Stuttgart and a ride in an SSK with Rudi Carraiciola and was so impressed he ordered an MB to have in Detroit to study and drive. He then designed a supercharged Packard and used it himself. However the supercharger was complex and he tuned the big 8 in various ways to get almost as much or more horsepower as the Europeans - 145 - without the supercharger. If not for the great depression we might have seen a Speedster, even a supercharged version at LeMans. These cars are incredibly fast and nimble for 1930. Email me at packard12s@hotmail.com if I can help you. Dave