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John (JW) & BDC, thanks for the trunk pics. Both very impressive! Even today a trunk offers an interesting sight.
Joe, sorry to swerve from the Duchess Project.

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I love it. Intelligence still reigns somewhere.

STARTER DEAD?

I get no result pressing my starter button. It happened at the Packard meeting a couple weeks ago, but bingo it started, saving much embarrassment. I drove it to work and home and it started fine. Drove it to Salem and back last weekend, no prob, and then Friday, when I always drive, nada. So there I am in a bow tie having to drive the SUV.

So I am in the garage today. The battery is well charged. I disconnected the battery, opened the center dash and pushed the radio up and back to get access to the starter button. The nuts holding it to the dash were a little loose, so I tightened them with a 3/8 socket with short extension from underneath. One wire was slightly loose. I reconnected it. Reconnected battery, Nothing.

I looked at my wiring diagram. My harness is from Harnesses Unlimited and their diagram shows #8 (orig #7A) from the right starter button terminal to the starter solenoid and #26 (orig #34) from the left button terminal to the voltage regulator. At first I figured my original starter button was a goner, but I checked the continuity and when I press the button there's plenty. I also I reconnected the battery and jumped the starter button. Nothing.

I turned the key on and the fuel gauge responded. I turned the headlights on and the ammeter showed discharge. So there's juice to the dash board.

So that leaves the starter solenoid and the voltage regulator.

If the solenoid were bad, shouldn't I at least hear a whirring?
(Clicking is when the battery is low.)

I took off the lid and poked the terminals of the voltage regular, then tried the button again and nothing.

It's no different with the key on and shouldn't be.

Any ideas? Questions? Something to check?


Joe

If stock, the 356 engines have a starter safety circuit and the solenoid is actually operated by a relay which gets ground thru the regulator or, in the later cars the generator.

On 40s there should be a small jumper wire or strap from the large battery terminal on solenoid to one of the small screws on the squarish portion of the solenoid. The other small terminal on the squarish portion has a wire which goes to the starter button. The other wire from starter button goes to the regulator. At the regulator it can get ground one of two ways. If the regulator has a separate terminal which the starter button connects to, there is a set of contacts inside which are closed to ground when the engine is off. Those contacts provide the ground to complete the circuit and bring in the relay. If the wire from button is connected to the ARM terminal then ground is provided thru the generator and its coils via an internal ground connection.

When you push the button, since the relay coil has voltage from battery via the small jumper the button connects the ground side which is coming from the regulator or generator. If there is a good ground the relay energizes and its contacts bring in the solenoid. Once the engine has started and generator is putting out voltage, the ground goes away either by the cutout relay closing and opening that separate contact or, in the other scenario, since the generator is now putting out voltage there is voltage on both terminals of relay and no ground. In either case not having a ground means the relay cannot come in so the solenoid is not able to operate with engine running.

You are going to have to determine the status of the ground and verify the jumper is tight and providing voltage to the relay coil. If both are good it is possible the relay or its contacts have an issue. If your car is not stock then it will be a matter of tracing or ohming everything out.

Believe you have the Autolite so here is a schematic of that solenoid. Delco is very similar although the layout is different.

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Thanks, Howard. I'll check the relay contacts tonight. I talked to Steve (Steve's of Napa) and he said check the contacts, too. It is 97 in Portland, unusually hot, so I'll wait till tonight to do it.

I have to open the relay and clean the contacts and then check it. If that doesn't do the job, I have a backup rebuilt Autolite starter to install.

I'm wondering if the contact got messed up because my starter button was not all the way tight.

Tomorrow.

I've looked everywhere I can think of to find out how to remove the solenoid relay cover. The diagnostics require removing the relay cover, then running tests. I don't want to take everything apart and find out 1 screw would have done it.

Also these tests assume everything is connected, so you have to remove all the connections, remove the cover, then hook everything back and start testing?

Thanks for help.

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UPDATE: Right brain people like me don't think, The first thing is start taking it all apart. I tried to overcome my natural thought mode and started with the smallest screws. And that worked.

I disconnected the screw on the back plate, the 2 small terminal screws, and 2 small screws on the cover under the large main terminals.

The cover has large holes that slip over the main terminals, but to get the cover off, you have to remove the strap to the starter on the right.

I'm doing this on the spare starter first before I do the starter currently on the car.

UPDATE: Right brain people like me don't think, The first thing is start taking it all apart. I tried to overcome my natural thought mode and started with the smallest screws. And that worked.

I disconnected the screw on the back plate, the 2 small terminal screws, and 2 small screws on the cover under the large main terminals.

The cover has large holes that slip over the main terminals, but to get the cover off, you have to remove the strap to the starter.

I'm doing this on the spare starter first before I do the starter currently on the car.

I am wondering why you have a wire going to turn signal switch from one of the relay coil terminals. There should be no connection. I have no schematics of your turn signals to know what the red wire function might be. Assuming the button is providing the ground side as per factory that other terminal would be the power source to the relay.

Is the red wire in question power to turnsignals and is there a fuse in the line or perhaps a loose connection at the point they are connected causing your solenoid relay to be getting intermittent power?

Yes, I think the starter button is providing ground. The other terminal is providing power to the turn signals.

Of course I have removed everything except that pesky lower cover screw closest to the engine.

Once that comes off I have to hook up the battery and do the tests. But it's unusually hot here today. High 90s. Warm in the garage.