Merry Christmas and welcome to Packard Motor Car Information! If you're new here, please register for a free account.  
Login
Username:

Password:

Remember me



Lost Password?

Register now!
FAQ's
Main Menu
Recent Forum Topics
Who is Online
200 user(s) are online (192 user(s) are browsing Forums)

Members: 0
Guests: 200

more...
Helping out...
PackardInfo is a free resource for Packard Owners that is completely supported by user donations. If you can help out, that would be great!

Donate via PayPal
Video Content
Visit PackardInfo.com YouTube Playlist

Donate via PayPal




Speedometer/ power steering/ oil leaks on 1955 Caribbean
#1
Home away from home
Home away from home

ewrecks
See User information
Gentlemen- Still trying to work out bugs and could use some imput before wasting more time and money.
My speedometer does not work. Was able to determine that cable is fine and turns with spinning the wheels which confirms that unit in transmission is working. I have two heads from parts cars but would like to properly bench test before installing. Do not see any postings on this issue or in the service bulletins . Notes in post by Howard recommend oiling the wick but not much else. If any info...please let me know.

The cylinder on the Bendix power steering is pushing out fluid when steering wheel is on extreme right turn. The pump is rebuilt and new hoses.
I had the cylinder rebuilt with a kit from Merritt but still getting the same leak. Before having the cylinder replaced with professiolly rebuilt unit ($445) or pulling and rebuilding the existing again. Could the leak be caused by the control valve? Only part not new or rebuilt.

Latest headache. There is a significant oil leak at the front of the engine that just developed. The engine was professionally rebuilt and I am just getting break in miles. Problem discovered when I pulled into garage after driving around 10 miles. Appears to be timing cover gasket. I note from the service bulletin that early unite had this problem and were replaced with a knurled finish to prevent spinning. I note that Kanter offers replacement unit with the knurled edge and neoprene gasket.
Has anyone else had this issue? How hard is replacement with engine in car? Assume need to pull radiator and front accessories., pullies and vibration damper to access timing cover. Not sure if also have to pull the water pump to access.
Would it be easier just to pull the engine?

Any help appreciated.
thanks
RJR

Posted on: 2017/9/20 1:44
 Top  Print   
 


Re: Speedometer/ power steering/ oil leaks on 1955 Caribbean
#2
Forum Ambassador
Forum Ambassador

Owen_Dyneto
See User information
Sure, you could have a leak at the Bendix control valve. There are two small rubber seals in there and Kanter has them available.

The worst part of replacing the front seal in the timing chain cover may be getting the vibration damper off. Other than, you need to remove the radiator and anything that inhibits access to the timing chain cover. You don't have to remove the water pump or water manifold. When I redid my front seal I used a housing with the knurled edge and just installed a new graphited rope seal in the seal housing, using the vibration damper to form it to shape. Assuming no problems, about a 3 hour job.

Posted on: 2017/9/20 7:49
 Top  Print   
 


Re: Speedometer/ power steering/ oil leaks on 1955 Caribbean
#3
Forum Ambassador
Forum Ambassador

HH56
See User information
On the speedo, first make sure the inner bronze shaft of the cable input assy where the square hole is located rotates freely. There is a bushing the oil hole wick is supposed to lubricate but if the oiling was neglected and the bushing is dry or worse, seized, the cable will most likely be destroyed trying to turn it. If the bushing has not seized but is sticky one of the symptoms will be the needle jumping all over the scale. There is a spinning magnet on the end of the rotating shaft and as the bushing and rotating shaft catches and breaks free and than catches again the sudden jerky movements cause the needle to jump. Too big or abrupt a jump and the needle can shear off. There is also a gear train with worm and spur gears inside driven off the shaft that runs the odometer section. That section could be dry and causing a drag on the shaft.

Here is an interesting article on a kind of rough check to see if the speedo is working reasonably. I was unaware so never looked for any specific silk screened numbers on a Packard speedometer but if you find some please let us know. I had heard at one time Packard used 1000 turns per mile but as you can see from the article there were many other numbers used. At any rate using a drill to approximate some of the RPMs should give a rough idea of whether the speedo is working.

Posted on: 2017/9/20 9:10
Howard
 Top  Print   
 


Re: Speedometer/ power steering/ oil leaks on 1955 Caribbean
#4
Home away from home
Home away from home

39SixSedanMan
See User information
Regarding the speedometer: if by stating the cable turns when the wheels are turned, you mean the cable end at the speedometer turns, there may still be an issue if the cable is too short and does not engage the square fitting inside the speedometer. You may need to make sure the transmission end is fully seated and tightened.

Can you spin the copper colored collar on the input to the speedometer to see if the pointer moves (spin the collar counter clockwise as viewed from the rear). The collar should spin easily, with consistent low torque through each revolution.

Quite often, as I've written before, the lubrication in the speedometer begins to fail resulting in high torque that the cable tries to turn. Eventually, the cable will twist and finally break. The owner then repaces the cable, which is new and strong and solves the problem for a while. But the speedometer continues to put a load on the cable and it will fail again.

I can't recall whether your Packard carried a King Seeley or Stewart Warner speedometer, but the failure modes are the same.

I see this quite often when repairing and calibrating speedometers. As I said, the cause is usually lack of grease on the odometer gears and occasionally lack of oil on the magnet shaft. The magnet shaft is typically externally accessible, but the gears are not, requiring opening the speedo case.

Late add: I just say HH added some great advice. As a calibration reference, most American speedometers used a ration of 1000rpm=60 mph.

Hope this helps.
Pat

Posted on: 2017/9/20 10:02
 Top  Print   
 


Re: Speedometer/ power steering/ oil leaks on 1955 Caribbean
#5
Home away from home
Home away from home

ewrecks
See User information
Gentlemen- Thanks again for your assist.
I ordered the timing gear seal and gaskets from Kanter and hopefully Owen's time estimate for replacement is accurate. The weather is really too spectacular to spend time in the office or the garage so the actual replacement may have to wait for a few days until the rains and gray skies return. (I wish this weather would hold for Hershey but it seems to rain for that event on a regular basis).
The rep at Kanter was not someone who has worked on the power steering systems and suggested I wait to talk to Stan on Monday before ordering another set of seals for the cylinder or control valve. I am still a little confused about the workings of the Bendix system and why the cylinder only leaks on the extreme limit of a turn. I suspect that the pressure is highest at this point and presses fluid past the seals. The control valve does not seem to have the ability to change the pressure generated by the pump but rather to direct the flow. That unit is not leaking, nor is there fluid loss from the pump or lines. If anyone has experienced this type of leak...and found a solution, please let me know.

Has anyone had a speedometer rebuilt/ serviced and was satisfied with the cost and work? Please provide any info. It is going to be a pain to replace the Speedometer unit and figured it might be worth the effort/ cost to be sure the unit is properly calibrated and serviced before hanging upside down under the dash.

Thanks again
RJR

Posted on: 2017/9/22 3:46
 Top  Print   
 


Re: Speedometer/ power steering/ oil leaks on 1955 Caribbean
#6
Forum Ambassador
Forum Ambassador

HH56
See User information
If the piston rod on the PS cylinder is not pitted, nicked or otherwise damaged and letting fluid leak past the seal at the spot where it would be positioned at the right turn, perhaps the seal has been installed incorrectly.

Attach file:



jpg  (60.16 KB)
209_59c50fe36b055.jpg 554X818 px

Posted on: 2017/9/22 8:28
Howard
 Top  Print   
 


Re: Speedometer/ power steering/ oil leaks on 1955 Caribbean
#7
Home away from home
Home away from home

ewrecks
See User information
We got the timing gear cover pulled and as expected the housing for the seal did not have the knurled surface and spun. That was the source of the oil leak.
I thought it was worthwhile to advise those building a 352 engine or replacing the timing gear seal to know that Packard's warning in the service bulletin was real and that standard gasket/ seal kits for rebuilding may not contain the knurled housing.. and could lead to future failure.
The new seal from Kanter costs around $48 and has both the knurled housing and a neoprene seal rather than the rope. I hope and anticipate that this will resolve the issue.
Thanks again for the information.
I plan to pull the steering cylinder to see if it may have been rebuilt with the neoprene seal reversed. If the cylinder that was removed because it was leaking had been rebuilt before with the seal reversed, it is possible that the rebuilder without the information from the service bulletin could have reassembled the cylinder with the same reversed seal. Since there are few people who have worked on Packard's still around, they would not know of the timing gear issue or the cylinder problem from experience and without knowing to look at the service bulletins........
Anyway, we will get the cylinder pulled apart and see if that was the case.
Thanks Howard.
RJR

Posted on: 2017/9/23 23:14
 Top  Print   
 









- The following Google Ad-Sense Advert helps fund the cost of providing this free resource -
- Logged in users will not see these. Please Join and Donate to help support the website -
Search
Recent Photos
Photo of the Day
Recent Registry
Upcoming Events
Website Comments or Questions?? Click Here Copyright 2006-2024, PackardInfo.com All Rights Reserved