Packard Forum Index » Pre-War (1899-1942)

Per O-D's comment, I knew that I had read the brief account of the development of tetraethyl in Alfred Sloan's My Years with General Motors. I went back and found some more history: "In August of 1924, a corporation was formed called the Ethyl Gasoline Corporation for the purpose of marketing tetraethyl lead as an antiknock compound. This company was a fifty-fifty partnership between General Motors and Standard Oil of New Jersey. Initially, the Ethyl fluid was manufactured by du Pont under a contract and it was not until 1948 that Ethyl began producing all of its own requirements."

So, this quote doesn't quite answer the question of when motorists could say "Fill er up with Ethyl", but it appears that marketing might have begun in earnest by the mid to late 1920s. I remember ads from magazines promoting spending more to get all the performance from your car by using a few cents more for gas with Ethyl or "High Test". However, the days of its use really drew to an end when GM started making all its valve guides of hardened materials, no longer requiring any lead as a lubricant, beginning in 1971. This was in advance of the industry-wide adoption of catalytic converters in 1975 where lead would be a contaminant.

I also remember Standard Oil affiliated companies promoting the advantages of "white gas" but don't know if that meant no lead was present. After a forty year career in public health, seeing the effects of lead poisoning in children and adults, I won't bemoan the absence of it in motor fuels, paints or plumbing.

I don't use a lead substitute in my Clipper, but I have used Star-Tron since I bought it in 2012. I have also added about an ounce of Marvel Mystery Oil of late. A friend with a '29 Packard 8 uses it, so I figure it's got to be OK.

I will use gas without ethanol only when it is convenient. I sure won't drive 20 miles out of my way for it. I think the main problem with modern gasoline is the lower octane ratings. Premium gas used to be 97 octane, now it's 93.

If you really want to get an earful (or in this case, an eyeful!), take a look at some of the older feeds regarding ethanol in Hemmings Motor News! Landlords throwing old ladies and children out of their homes to freeze in the snow would get more sympathy from this crowd than the suppliers of ethanol!

DaveB845, thanks for the good information. Just a few comments:

AMOCO premium was lead-free (white gas), their regular grade contained TEL.

Lead also plays a role in protecting valve seats and faces, probably more important than lubricating guides and stems. On the seats it prevents or minimizes what has been called "micro-welds" which form and break as the surfaces separate. The micro-welds are what causes seat and valve face erosion, and with it what was the typical valve grind every 40,000 miles or so. On a broad scale it was induction-hardening of seats that brought that problem to an end, though some makes like Chrysler used hardened seats in some of their engines for many years before that.

I do thoroughly detest E10 gasoline but it's primarily on political and scientific grounds, it just isn't sound science, or economics either. But I've never had a problem with it in either Packard. The carburetor on the '34 was rebuilt back in the 1970s the Rochesters in the Caribbean in 1998 - both have proven completely trouble-free.

OK I'll bite....... Why do you guys use Marvel mystery oil in the gas....... And how much do you use pertank/size?

Good Morning...The bottle is marked off in four ounce segments and that, is what I put into every tank, or two ounces into a half tank. I have used it for years and my engines tend to last.

As an example, I'm just selling a Jeep Grand Cherokee that has 261,000 miles and the engine runs fine. The running gear does need some work.

It seems to keep things well lubricated and many of us use it in the desert as it seems to keep the modern fuels from boiling in the glass bowl of the fuel strainer as soon as it does with only gasoline by itself.

Marvel Mystery oil has been around since the 1920's so it is either somewhat effective or one of the greatest marketing cons of the last 97 or so years. ERNIE

Well sounds good to me...... Just a couple more questions........ Does the oil show in the exhaust (blue smoke) and does it foul your plugs?

A lot of interesting and informative stuff here! Before I purchased my Packard, my wife asked the question on unleaded fuel - would it be okay in a car that old? I gave her kudos for the insight and have to admit, that had not occurred to me! I did do a ton of online research and, although I am the first to realize you can't believe everything you read online, the vast majority of what I found, seemed to concur that the absence of lead did not harm an engine. The much bigger threat seemed to come from ethanol. Apparently fuels with this additive attacked much of the 'old rubber' in pre-70's engines. To that end, I have used only premium 94 octane fuel in my '39 as it says it contains 'no ethanol'. I know when I purchased a rebuilt carb from the 'Carburetor Exchange' in Del Monte, they seemed to make a big deal out of certifying that their rebuilds were all re-manufactured with 'ethanol-compliant' rubber components. This seemed to reinforce the risk of exposing 'old rubber' to ethanol.
The bulk of the owners who responded here say 'no lead additive'; yet there does seem to be that issue with valve faces and seats. Does adding lead do any harm?? i.e. over time, could I end up with a bunch of muck in the bottom of my gas tank?? I have to say, I'm betwixt 'n between on this one.
I do intend on using my car as a near-daily driver when I get it all sorted out and want to do the right thing for the 'long haul'.

Remember it's a lead Substitute, not lead.

You are 100% correct, the only reason for lead is so the fuel can be compressed before dieseling, the pre-war cars have low compression engines and lead offers no benefits at all, if the lead was needed they would have put in the fuel.

Chuck, there were very definitely engines that needed TEL for antiknock in the prewar era, remember that octane ratings of many fuels in the 20s was perhaps 50, sometimes less. It was the introduction of TEL into these very low octane fuels of the time that enabled engine manufacturers to begin increasing compression ratios. Said another way, the obstacle faced by motor manufacturers to increasing compression ratios was the lack of fuel with sufficient anti-knock characteristics. TEL as an antiknock additive was discovered about 1920 IIRC and fuels with it were commonplace shortly thereafter. As combustion pressures and temperatures increased, TEL also played a role in prolonging valve seat and face surfaces by inhibiting "microwelds". There are several good histories that cover the interplay between engine development and fuels.