Packard Forum Index » Pre-War (1899-1942)

Hope someone has assembled a horn recently enough that they may remember the 'sequence, parts and perils' to be able to offer a hint or some guidance, so I can figure out what I'm doing wrong. ORIGINALLY, my chrome horn ring was broken, missing 120 degrees of the outer ring. I was lucky enough to get a flawless replacement and in trying to put it all back together, I cannot seem to get things right, so the horn rings when it's supposed and doesn't when it's not! The old ring had some kind of rubbery sealant set on the inner channel, I presume to isolate it current-wise, from the 'live' voltage. I made a felt washer instead of the goop for my new ring and it looks like is serves the same purpose. My problem: When assembled, the horn will beep if I push on just ONE of the 3 spokes, but then it will start beeping and not stop. I don't know if the felt isolating washer is not thick enough or if I am possibly missing a part. Before, the horn worked, sort of, in as much as it would beep if I fiddled with the ring, I could get a honk, and it did NOT stick on with a continuous ring, as it seems to want to do now. Can anyone shed any light on this?? Much appreciate anyone willing to weigh in. Chris.

Does my chicken scratching help, Chris? From '40 160.

Don't quote me, but I might have made my squishy thing out of a kitchen sponge, the kind with polypropylene on one side. I am sure someone else will hav e something more precise.

Doin't ask me what a lip disk is. Have no idea, but I think it's the sponge.

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Thanks for weighing in Joe. diagram looks like my setup alright; Is the 'lip disk' part of the chrome ring or is that something else? (maybe what I'm missing) I am going to try and put a cardboard spacer underneath my felt washer to make it a bit thicker and see if that changes anything. Chris.
Edit: Oops, sorry Joe, I didn't see that part where you said 'don't ask me what a lip disk is'.... It sure SOUNDS like the channeled indentation in the horn ring though???

I can't recall if it's one of my former prewar Packards or one of my others but there was a soft rubber disk (more like black foam rubber) about 1/8" thick somewhere in the stack to give it its cush.

That makes sense - thanks Don. The 'last guy' had just squeezed some kind or rubbery sealant or something into the 'lip channel' of the inner hub of the horn ring. It stuck well and when I tried to remove it, the stuff disintegrated, so not possible to reuse it. I'll try and follow Joe's lead and make something out of close-cell foam or something and see if I can get, some spring separation between the ring and the wheel.
Again, appreciate you guys taking the time. Chris.

This might be helpful, taken many years ago - 1601.

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Interesting and quite different from how the later horn rings make a connection. Don't have a car with the mechanism so am just being nosy and curious about where the electrical contact is made with the early buttons.

Never having examined that part, just from looks am guessing the reddish bottom on the wire part is what might be a flat fiber insulator disc under the soldered on wire contact and that part rests in the small shallow recess in the cup. If it is an insulator disc it would seem to indicate the cup might be at ground potential. Is that correct or is the recess in the wheel hub rubber and the cup is not actually touching ground so to blow the horn a ground would need to come from somewhere else? If the cup is not grounded it would seem that copper colored spider disc also makes the entire cup an extension of the wire. If so, does the horn button somehow touch a ground to the copper spider or sides of the cup?

If the cup is at ground then that would seem to indicate the copper spider piece is also at ground and the horn button makes one of the 6 legs of the copper piece touch the center wire contact to blow the horn. If that is how it works is there a photo of the button side or can you tell if the ridge formed at the outer edge of the copper piece fits into a recess in the horn ring or button to ensure nothing can shift and the legs cannot touch the wire contact until the button is pushed?

Is there anything other than shape of the copper piece keeping the legs away from the center contact? I notice in Joe's 40 drawing there is something that looks like a sort of spring that I don't see in the 38 photos. Does the 40 use the same copper 6 legged spider piece? 41 -- at least on Clipper based bodies -- and later wheels thru 54 are completely different and the contact surface is between two plate edges at the periphery of the ring center.

If the cup is at ground potential then the narrow slot where the wire passes thru would make it imperative the wire soldered to the contact have insulation that has not shrunk back enough to leave a bare spot so the conductors in the wire could potentially touch the slot.

Thanks for posting that, Dave. Certainly a different setup than the chrome ring business I have, but related in the isolation from ground. Howard, as I previously posted, I am going to try either a different 'washer' for the channel on the inner disc of the chrome piece or at least thicken it up a bit to see if it will isolate the whole business from grounding inadvertently. I still think there might have been a part originally that looked like or performed the same function as the 'spider washer' in Dave's pictures. Anybody in this vintage know or recall???? It would sure make sense that there be a positive spring action, holding the ring and button away from the wheel. Chris.