Packard Forum Index » Pre-War (1899-1942)

Certainly you can eliminate the oil cooler and full-flow filter, Packards with earlier iterations of your engine had neither and are fine, very capable machines. What's really important is that, in eliminating them, they took proper steps to maintain the oil flow thru the pressure regulator and back to the engine internals. If the car has been in regular use since the cooler and filter were removed and it runs well with good oil pressure and no bearing or other internal noises, it may be safe to assume that all is well and was properly done.

Other than 1899 and perhaps a few other very early years, 1934 has Packard's highest survival rate at over 3%, so finding the original oil cooler housing will be very challenging. Cars that were once considered parts cars have become candidates for restoration. As to the internal cooler core itself, even if you found one it would almost certainly be useless, but simple enough to fabricate a bypass, most all of us with 1934 Eights and Super 8s have ready done that. And repro full-flow filters are available.

Assuming you're comfortable with the oiling question, I'd get the IR temp gun working and diagnose your cooling system problem. If not, I'd tackle the lubrication question first. It should take a half hour or less to remove the water pump once the coolant has been drained.

So, I started the car and checked the cylinders several times and the temps front to back were a perhaps 50 F hotter on #8 than on #1. Do you think that is an indication on water not circulating properly? The pump is also making very little noise now and I'm wondering if the original noise was more a byproduct of the car having been parked for 6 years?

On an additional subject. What is the thinking amongst the brain trust on the need to use a lead substitute in the gas?

Rear cylinder 50 degrees hotter than #1 is NOT good. One possible cause would be the result of removing the oil cooler and blocking off the openings without understanding its function and making needed modifications. A mistake that's all too common, unfortunately.

The 1934 is uniquely configured with the cooler on the side plate. The side plate is baffled such that, in order for the coolant to reach the rear cylinders, it must first enter, circulate thru and exit the cooler through the appropriate passages. Just blocking off the cooler passages with a blank plate prohibits this and inhibits coolant flow to all the following cylinders. I'd suggest replacing the side plate with one for the 1933 model. Readily available as a reproduction. Or, if you wish to retain the 1934 side plate, remove it and remove the little baffle in it that directs the water into the cooler housing.

You might still want to check the water pump to insure the impeller is secure on the shaft.

The prime beneficiary of using a lead substitute is the bank account of the seller of same. If you intend a steady diet of highway speed driving, then consider hardened exhaust valve seat inserts at rebuild time. Or perhaps that has already been done? You certainly don't need a lead substitute for octane enhancement, regular 87 octane pump gas is already more than your engine needs.

Hawley -- Is there a little stovepipe coming off the top of the water pump on your car? That would be the oiler, and a squirt of motor oil down this pipe would be appropriate to lubricate the pump. Was it lubricated when you ran it? Might have been the cause of the noise you were hearing.

I suspect your side plate aka water jacket baffling is rotted out to the point where the coolant is not being distributed evenly across the block, as it should be. 50 degrees hotter on the backside of the engine would be the manifest result in my opinion. Pull it off and inspect, if it is fine then all it cost you is a new gasket and a little time. Plus you'll be able to clean any rust scale off the cylinders.

Hawley -- Is there a little stovepipe coming off the top of the water pump on your car? That would be the oiler, and a squirt of motor oil down this pipe would be appropriate to lubricate the pump. Was it lubricated when you ran it? Might have been the cause of the noise you were hearing.

I suspect your side plate aka water jacket baffling is rotted out to the point where the coolant is not being distributed evenly across the block, as it should be. 50 degrees hotter on the backside of the engine would be the manifest result in my opinion. Pull it off and inspect, if it is fine then all it cost you is a new gasket and a little time. Plus you'll be able to clean any rust scale off the cylinders.

So, thank you everyone for your insightful input. It is greatly appreciated. I was going to put the car in a local show and test drove it. Fairly quickly (within a couple of miles) I was blowing coolant out of the overflow and my after market temperature gauge was pegged at 280 F. It seems to me that either the water pump isn't working or there is some sort of obstruction or both. I think its time to open it up and flush everything....but before doing that I have several questions.
1. Would you recommend me trying to flush the entire system first or drain it and flush the radiator and the engine separately?
2. One of you guys suggested that if I took the water jacket cover plate off I could see the pump blades from there. Is that accurate and would that give me enough inspection of the pump to determine it's status?
3. Just a quick look at the water jacket cover looks like its held on by ~36 bolts. Do those have a propensity to snap off?
4. Any gasket suggestions for water jacket cover?
5. It was suggested that removal of the water pump does not require removing the radiator. It looks like the fan is held on with 4 bolts? It looks like the fan pulley is affixed to the shaft with a nut? Do I have those right? Since there appears to be no adjustment pulley for the fan belts is there some trick to pulling off and putting on the pulley with the belts?
6. The device in the top of the radiator that actuates the linkage for the louvers has never worked for me so I have the louvers set open. Other than correctness for the car does that bellows or whatever is in the radiator sit in and possibly block the flow? I'm just trying to figure out whether or not I should even try to mess with it at this point.
I know some of these questions may seem a little bit basic but I'm trying to do work that I can recover from.

I thank you for taking the time to read through this and would appreciate any information you could provide. Thank you for your patience.

Bill

I suggest you go back and re-read this thread from the beginning, I think we're beginning cover some ground the second time.

Yes, there is an adjustment for the fan belt tension and I'm sure we've discussed this before. The pump body is an eccentric mounting in the block, loosen the 5 nuts on the pump retaining collar or ring and rotate the pump body to loosen or tighten the belts. And of course remove the 5 nuts and move the collar forward off the studs to remove the pump from the block.

Yes, the fan can be removed without removing the radiator. And with the fan off, you can remove the pump without removing the pulley.

New gaskets are readily available for the side jacket. And yes, be gentle, the little bolts do tend to break off.

Yes Owen, I am afraid we are covering some of the same info and I apologize for that. I just want to make sure I'm not forgetting some aspect of this. Will proceed with draining the radiator and getting the side plate off. Still not clear on whether I should mess with the device in the radiator that opens the louvers. Again, I have them set open.

Wouldn't a far simpler first step be to just remove the water pump and examine it for function? And if the pump doesn't show to be the culprit, then have the radiator checked for flow rate and internal blockage? If those show up nothing, then perhaps it's time to pull the water jacket plate.

As long as the radiator shutters are blocked open, you can set aside any issues with the shutter-stat until you resolve the overheating problem.

Mr. Hawley
You have a great car there and it deserves the best of care.
Since the demise of the corner service station and the service-oriented dealer, the options of maintaining your car have diminished.
With some study the work can be done by the owner if you are willing to put in the study time to properly do the work.
Here are two books that would help give you the background to do the work:

packardinfo.com/xoops/html/downloads/1935ShopManual.pdf

faxonautoliterature.com/1934-1940-4th-Edition-Motors-Shop-Manual

You will find lots of good advise on this forum but you should build your background to be able to at least figure out some of your problems.

Best of luck with your project.

JimKB1MCV