Packard Forum Index » ZIS, ZIL, and other Packard Cousins!

Quote:
Gerd,

Interesting statement from the link you provided "It is said that when Richard M. Nixon requested his own vehicle be transported to Asia during his stay, the government of China insisted he use a Hong Qi based on its superior mechanical quality and functionality."

Gerd, I don't have the pretty software to draw with that Kev does but here is a crude one the way I think it goes together.

EDIT:Quote: The assembly was undoubtedly made this way by the factory. It was quick and inexpensive and worked well for the purpose.

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OK, Gerd. No paintings. That is one way it could go. If they used a different kind of solenoid also another way it could be wired.

Great high 5 mascot! Don't know how you always come up with a picture for the purpose.

Quote: Yes. In addition to the reasons you gave, if 2 switches were pushed for different directions and both contactors provided voltage & heavy current at same time to pump, things could have gotten very interesting. This way only the solenoid coils would get power at once and at worst, a fuse would blow.

Would sure like to see a picture of the window mechanism if you have one in your spare parts pile. With a bidirectional pump, did it have the big spring like the Packard?

While we are on the subject of Chinese limousines I would like to tell you a story.

This story was told to me in good faith. I have no idea if it is true or accurate but will relate it as it was told to me.

In the 50s or early 60s there was a man who lived in British Columbia Canada known as Hong Kong Charlie. He had an unusual way of making a living.

He went around to garages and used car lots in the Vancouver area and bought cheap used cars. He did not care what make they were, he did not care if they were rusty, the upholstery torn, he did not even care if they ran. He had these simple requirements: They had to be big American cars, they had to have 4 doors, all glass had to be intact and every piece of chrome had to be on the car.

Once a year he loaded all the cars on a ship in Vancouver harbour. From there they sailed to just outside the 3 mile limit off the Chinese coast. A Chinese ship met him at sea. Each car was lifted off the one ship and onto the other by crane. As each car was loaded Hong Kong Charlie was paid a fixed price, in American dollars, in cash.

The cars were taken to China where the motors were rebuilt, body panels repaired, rusty fenders remade, and interiors completely reupholstered. All the cars were painted black. Then they were put into service as transportation for important party officials.

I do not know if this is a true story or an urban legend. Certain facts make sense, for example buying cars from Canada when trade with the US was out of the question. I give it here only for entertainment.

Hadn't heard that story, but sure wouldn't discount it. Things American, carwise, would probably have been in high demand because almost anything else would have been small & probably not too suited for the "limo" set. What else reasonably large was there besides Mercedes & RR? Am sure they had a workforce that could do just as you described too--even to the point of hand making some complex mechanical part--as long as it was in good enough shape to copy.

Thanks Gerd. Those look much different than postwar Packard used. Appear a bit shorter and heavier duty construction.

Packard ones were a tube about 10" long, 1 1/2" diameter with a zinc cast piece crimped on top for a guide and a machined piece with built in solenoid valve crimped in bottom. The piston was very simple-- a rod with a heavy disk riveted at one end. The piston seal was a rubber L shaped ring that went in a groove on the disk. Very inexpensive and if it leaked, throw it away and install another. Will see if I can find a real cylinder around somewhere but here is picture of seat and window cylinders from service manual.

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It is interesting. ZIS used the mechanism sliding on the door and windows like we used on manual windows but Packard and most American cars with hydraulic windows used a very different frame that was only bolted to the bottom of the door and the X sliding on the window bottom.

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Maybe--but it would require a lot of length in the cylinder to contain the spring and a lot of strength in the top cap as well--probably cost way more than they wanted to spend.

The advantage to the way they did it on both cars is the mechanical leverage vs travel. Can't tell exactly the ratio on the ZIS but on the Packard it is roughly 3:1 so if the piston moves 6", the window moves 18". The apparently smaller diameter cylinder and leverage loss would require higher pressure though so maybe why Packard was double the ZIS. On the other hand, the ZIS cylinder appears shorter but larger diameter so it's mechanical leverage may have been more --maybe 4:1 but because of the diameter, lower pressure.

One thing on the frame type assembly might be in ease of manufacture. Packard bolted in the whole thing with 2 bolts at the bottom and little adjustment needed (or available even if they did) whereas the ZIS looks like it took a bit more work to mount and adjust.

Yes. much better. It looks like initial drawing had the parts reversed. If the rectangle piece is bolted to the door then that ratio looks to be about 4:1 but the idea is the same. The spring could also could be shorter-but stronger than the Packard.

If ZIS piston is maybe 5-6cm diameter then I think both would be somewhere around 35 bars pushing window up. ZIS used lower pressure, wider cylinder--Packard smaller cylinder but higher pressure. Packard also had slight mechanical advantage with ratio. But now on to the next subject--I think you said solenoid valves